Greetings from Yabo, a wandering Tortoise that chose me.

[Ian_Yabo]

Hello All,

Sorry for the life story to follow but I'd like to hear from more experienced owners on my situation and I feel details are important so here we go...

About a two months ago I was walking out my front door to head to work on a hot summer day and found a 6ish inch, what I am assuming (with very limited experience but a lot of research) to be a 1-1.5 year old, female Sulcata. Im very close with my neighbors and wasn't aware of anyone owning a tortoise but I asked around my block and no one was missing. I posted on the discussion board at the front of my neighborhood where pictures of lost animals frequently are posted and no call or reply. So after about a month I'm assuming I'll end up being its caretaker for quite some time, which I am completely content with.

It is cute as can be and has hilarious mannerisms, head bobbing like a rock star and such, but in other ways is very abnormal from a lot of the posts I have read here and on other forums in ways of diet and preferred habitation for a Sulcata.

First off, I would like confirmation about its breed because everything else is subsequent to that, so here's a few pictures of the lil fella...


Then I would like to talk about its diet as I'm trying to ween it off store bought food supplemented with reptile calcium and towards a grass/ weed diet (I have a large yard full of healthy, organic bermuda grass and have a large section of wild dandelions that just started sprouting). Also it treats water like the witch from Oz and I get a little worried about it because it is frequently in the high 90s here in southern California high desert. During soaks it looks at me like "why are you doing this to me," and refuses to drink out of any container I have tried thus far.

Lastly, habitation and how much free space I should give it and what the healthiest bedding would be and such.

Any help is greatly appreciated.

Love,
Yabo and Ian

 

[AmberD]

Hello and welcome Yabo and Ian! I am fairly new to tort keeping and will leave the identification to more knowledgeable members. I would just like to say I am happy Yabo has found someone to look out for him/her and willing to take on the task.
Good luck with your new adventure

 

[Ian_Yabo]

Hello and welcome Yabo and Ian! I am fairly new to tort keeping and will leave the identification to more knowledgeable members. I would just like to say I am happy Yabo has found someone to look out for him/her and willing to take on the task.
Good luck with your new adventure

thanks for the reply, I just want the little bugger to be happy and healthy as can be.

 

[Taylor T.]

In case you haven't found these threads yet:

http://www.tortoiseforum.org/threads/beginner-mistakes.45180
http://www.tortoiseforum.org/threads/how-to-raise-a-healthy-sulcata-or-leopard-version-2-0.79895/
http://www.tortoiseforum.org/threads/for-those-who-have-a-young-sulcata.76744/

 

[wellington]

Hello and Welcome. Yes, you have a sulcata. Read the links Taylor T linked for you and come back with more questions if they weren't answered. As for the diet. Feed as wide a variety as possible, even adding the better store greens into it if you have to. Make sure there is water available in a low sided dish and give warm water soaks daily. After reading the threads, let us know if your going to house inside or outside or both

 

[Ian_Yabo]

In case you haven't found these threads yet:

http://www.tortoiseforum.org/threads/beginner-mistakes.45180
http://www.tortoiseforum.org/threads/how-to-raise-a-healthy-sulcata-or-leopard-version-2-0.79895/
http://www.tortoiseforum.org/threads/for-those-who-have-a-young-sulcata.76744/

Hey thanks for the reply!

I have read all of those, and the reason for my post is because if the tortoise is indeed Sulcata, he/she responds in very odd ways to all of the normal care techniques.

When soaking in opaque, warm (85-90 degree water), slightly less deep as the bottom of its neck, instead of dipping its head to drink or keeping its head above the water, which it easily could, it often retracts into its shell as if it is spooked and then comes out of the water freaking out like its drowning. It's started coughing and has other strange reactions to soaking so ill use a spray bottle to get him moist but he runs away like I'm satan. I don't want to drown the little guy if he doesn't understand the soaking concept, and figure the tortoise knows whats good for it better than I do so I just keep its area moist and soak all the food I give it and hope for the best.

If i chop up organic st. augustine grass finely and mix it with its greens (romaine, dandelion, endive, ect) it will either spend all day picking out the non grass, or just leave the whole thing alone. Sometimes when the greens are moist enough a piece of grass or two will get stuck to the greens and it will eat it unknowingly, but other than that it avoids grass like the plague.

Everything I've read about Sulcata from seemingly reliable sources says humidity is best around 80%, and my grass and soil in my yard that gets watered every other day and gets a lot of sun is, at ground level, probably right around there. He/she hardly ever likes to stay in the more humid regions and so oddly likes the concrete or brick, I have no idea why.

My guess from the appearance and the personality of the tortoise is that it was mistreated and mis-cared for for most of its short life; I'm willing to take the time to reverse these tendencies if possible. Just looking for specific techniques maybe from someone else who has an odd ball lil fellow like mine.

 

[daniellenc]

Maybe try to dry and grind the grass into power to mix in? It's probably an escaped or dumped pet who wasn't properly fed and therefore isn't used to grass yet. I would use small amounts of dried or very finely chopped grass and increase the amount slowly as s/he starts to eat more but I'm very new as well.

 

[Ian_Yabo]

Hello and Welcome. Yes, you have a sulcata. Read the links Taylor T linked for you and come back with more questions if they weren't answered. As for the diet. Feed as wide a variety as possible, even adding the better store greens into it if you have to. Make sure there is water available in a low sided dish and give warm water soaks daily. After reading the threads, let us know if your going to house inside or outside or both

My reply to Taylor T. will answer most of those questions, but as far as housing, it's a mix. I spent a whole weekend tortoise proofing my backyard in an area that has three separate climates:
1) the grassy area 35' long by 15' wide: 50% of my yard is 3" to 12" st. augustine grass that is green and healthy as can be. We've had the same yard for 26 years and never used anything except organic soil, and the grass is as old as i can remember. The other half of the yard is dried dead grass that we choose not to water due to summer drought conditions here in California. During the winter these sections are also green and lush and grow as high as 1.5 feet unless cut.
2) Attached to the yard is a concrete slab that the tort has access to that is around 12' by 12'.
3) there is a strictly dirt section which is just drier soil with some plants: gardenias, roses and others.

I have made enclosures out of half broken ceramic pots in all three of these areas because at no part of the day is there direct sunlight on all three, or complete shade on all three and figured id let it chose what it likes best for the time of day and its mood.

I'll attach pictures when i get back home.

Thank you for your time,
If you have any advice it is welcome,
Ian

 

[Ian_Yabo]

Hello and Welcome. Yes, you have a sulcata. Read the links Taylor T linked for you and come back with more questions if they weren't answered. As for the diet. Feed as wide a variety as possible, even adding the better store greens into it if you have to. Make sure there is water available in a low sided dish and give warm water soaks daily. After reading the threads, let us know if your going to house inside or outside or both

Oh i only half finished my initial response:

I leave the little tort out there in the back yard from around 10 am till 7 pm. We have no menacing cats in our neighborhood. birds of prey are extremely rare, and large tree canopies cover most of the area visible from above. Our yard has walls made of brick that extend pretty deeply into the ground, and to keep him from getting anywhere I don't want him in the yard, i use plastic lattice with holes just smaller than the tort to section off. We do have raccoons, but they never come out unless it's dark and late at night so i make sure little tort is inside by then.
By the time I bring him inside the lil tort only wants to sleep. he sleeps in a glass enclosure [3.5 ft by 2ft] that i've taped off to make opaque and filled with some bedding the dude at the local pet shop recommended (cant remember the exact blend, but will check when I get home). It seemed to dry out pretty quickly so lately, in the morning after i put tort in the back yard i grab a handful of wet grass and toss it in the cage to keep humidity higher and make the bedding more diverse.
The only time i've used the uvb bulb was when it was raining and i have a ceramic heat rock that seems to get to about 85-90 degrees that i used when it was colder in the spring, the lil tort liked the rock a lot. the cage top is 75% covered by plywood.

again sorry for the paragraphs but I can see by reading forums that small details can make all the difference.

Thanks!
ian

 

[Ian_Yabo]

Maybe try to dry and grind the grass into power to mix in? It's probably an escaped or dumped pet who wasn't properly fed and therefore isn't used to grass yet. I would use small amounts of dried or very finely chopped grass and increase the amount slowly as s/he starts to eat more but I'm very new as well.

will try this, any recommendation on how to grind the grass up?

 

[daniellenc]

I use my food processor for everything personally, but if dried your hands will work just as well and using very small amounts to start should help.

 

[Ian_Yabo]

I use my food processor for everything personally, but if dried your hands will work just as well and using very small amounts to start should help.

I've only tried it fresh and my blender didn't work well, ill dry it dried out and crush it up and mix it in. good tip thank you!

 

[Ian_Yabo]

so update:

i put the tort in just a tiny bit of water, like a quarter inch, and he still freaked out a bit but even when he went into his shell it wasn't deep enough to cover his nose and mouth and sooner than later he came around to standing in the water and he looked like he enjoyed it. he even put his head down and it looked like he might have took a drink or two.
im gunna work my way up to more water when he gets more comfy in the shallow. only thing now is the plastic container im using isn't textured at all so he starts waving his arms back and forth like he's trying to walk but is going no where. i dont know if he's just being a goofball or if he wants out but either way im gunna look for a container with more texture in the bottom.

 

[Markw84]

Ian

Your little "guy" looks pretty healthy. By the growth patterns I see, and the progress of darker color lightening, it has the look of a 2 year old. However, it is the size of a well fed 9-12 month old sulcata. But a sulcata kept primarily dry in your area and perhaps with poor food given, could well be that size at 2 years. It is moderately pyramided - but no metabolic bone disease is apparent at all - so it was just kept on the dry side and fed either food not nutritionally proper, or maybe fed every other day as some "older" techniques sometimes propose.

The behavior in the soaking tub sounds normal to me for a tortoise not used to it. I always soak all my tortoises in water deeper than you are. I have the water level so it comes to where the marginals meet the costals. Acting like they are trying to get out is normal, and I like to see it. I'm worried if mine just sit there and aren't active at all. Once used to it, they will often sit and stretch out, basking style, for 5-10 minutes, but then the tortoise treadmill starts. To say your tortoise hates it is an interpretation many make. But I find it interesting that constant motion and pacing and testing boundaries when in an outside enclosure is interpreted as "he loves it and is constantly exploring". But in a soaking tub, it is "he hates it and is constantly trying to get out"! As far as "why are you doing this to me" - You really do know that is all you - tortoises have no facial muscles and cannot make any expressions! Take as many pictures as you can and your tortoise will always have the same "expression"! Soak your tortoise. At 6" your tortoise will do much better with the hydration and the activity of soaking will get it used to you and being handled.

I would not keep a 6" sulcata outside all day long especially in your area in the summer. I personally keep sulcatas that size out about 4-6 hours on nice sunny days in the summer, and then give them a soak and back to their nice, humid, enclosed chamber. There is no way in the California high desert you have humidity even at grass level over 30% watering every other day. I monitor humidity constantly with data sensors, and in my enclosures in the central valley, watering the grass area 4 times a day, humidity bounces from 15% to 75% ( just after the sprinklers are on) but averages 40%. I do provide nice bushes and tufts of grass they can push under and constantly dig at the soil to expose the damper soil, and there they can find 75-85%.

Sulcatas eat what they are used to eating. They "learn" what food is and are very habitual. Under 10-12" they prefer leafy weeds and greens over grass, but can be exposed to grass and start liking it much earlier. I don't grind it up. I just start with new grass growth and chop it up fairly small with scissors. Start chopping up the newer, more tender grass blades and sprinkle it over the food. Sounds like you are doing that now, but give it a chance. Your tortoise will start eating more and more grass, and as it gets bigger, you will eventually want grass and hay to be well over 50% of its diet. Be sure to include some high calcium foods in there as well as that is the best way to get your tortoise calcium Grape leaves, mulberry, hibiscus, rose of Sharon, opuntia cactus are the ones I ensure are part of the weekly rotation. With the outside time you are giving, and the extended times of year you can utilize where you live, I would not worry about UVB lights at all. Your tortoise is getting plenty of sunshine. If in the winter, you are going more than 6 weeks with no sun exposure, then I would look at adding UVB for that period. As long as you average at least a few hours a week of good sunshine, there is plenty UVB from that for proper D3 synthesis.

As far as not liking to stay in the more humid areas - your tortoise will be exploring, testing, looking for places to feel secure, and looking for good food sources. They are the most active of tortoises. It will feel most secure pushed into a corner, as opposed to "looking for humidity" As a result provide it with good choices of lush bushes to hide beneath, where it is kept more moist, or a small hide to retreat to that is well insulated from the heat of the sun. I also am in California, but even with drought restriction, the health of my tortoises is still important. I set my sprinklers to come on for just 1 minute 4 times every two hours. That's only 4 minutes of sprinkler time to make it rain and the tortoises respond! Sulcatas thrive in the monsoon season. On a hot summer day, even a 1 minute rain shower to wet them down is so good for them!

Follow the guides here on the forum. Keep in mind - your tortoise is still the equivalent of a yearling. The best info you need is here on this forum.

 

[Ian_Yabo]

Ian

Your little "guy" looks pretty healthy. By the growth patterns I see, and the progress of darker color lightening, it has the look of a 2 year old. However, it is the size of a well fed 9-12 month old sulcata. But a sulcata kept primarily dry in your area and perhaps with poor food given, could well be that size at 2 years. It is moderately pyramided - but no metabolic bone disease is apparent at all - so it was just kept on the dry side and fed either food not nutritionally proper, or maybe fed every other day as some "older" techniques sometimes propose.

The behavior in the soaking tub sounds normal to me for a tortoise not used to it. I always soak all my tortoises in water deeper than you are. I have the water level so it comes to where the marginals meet the costals. Acting like they are trying to get out is normal, and I like to see it. I'm worried if mine just sit there and aren't active at all. Once used to it, they will often sit and stretch out, basking style, for 5-10 minutes, but then the tortoise treadmill starts. To say your tortoise hates it is an interpretation many make. But I find it interesting that constant motion and pacing and testing boundaries when in an outside enclosure is interpreted as "he loves it and is constantly exploring". But in a soaking tub, it is "he hates it and is constantly trying to get out"! As far as "why are you doing this to me" - You really do know that is all you - tortoises have no facial muscles and cannot make any expressions! Take as many pictures as you can and your tortoise will always have the same "expression"! Soak your tortoise. At 6" your tortoise will do much better with the hydration and the activity of soaking will get it used to you and being handled.

I would not keep a 6" sulcata outside all day long especially in your area in the summer. I personally keep sulcatas that size out about 4-6 hours on nice sunny days in the summer, and then give them a soak and back to their nice, humid, enclosed chamber. There is no way in the California high desert you have humidity even at grass level over 30% watering every other day. I monitor humidity constantly with data sensors, and in my enclosures in the central valley, watering the grass area 4 times a day, humidity bounces from 15% to 75% ( just after the sprinklers are on) but averages 40%. I do provide nice bushes and tufts of grass they can push under and constantly dig at the soil to expose the damper soil, and there they can find 75-85%.

Sulcatas eat what they are used to eating. They "learn" what food is and are very habitual. Under 10-12" they prefer leafy weeds and greens over grass, but can be exposed to grass and start liking it much earlier. I don't grind it up. I just start with new grass growth and chop it up fairly small with scissors. Start chopping up the newer, more tender grass blades and sprinkle it over the food. Sounds like you are doing that now, but give it a chance. Your tortoise will start eating more and more grass, and as it gets bigger, you will eventually want grass and hay to be well over 50% of its diet. Be sure to include some high calcium foods in there as well as that is the best way to get your tortoise calcium Grape leaves, mulberry, hibiscus, rose of Sharon, opuntia cactus are the ones I ensure are part of the weekly rotation. With the outside time you are giving, and the extended times of year you can utilize where you live, I would not worry about UVB lights at all. Your tortoise is getting plenty of sunshine. If in the winter, you are going more than 6 weeks with no sun exposure, then I would look at adding UVB for that period. As long as you average at least a few hours a week of good sunshine, there is plenty UVB from that for proper D3 synthesis.

As far as not liking to stay in the more humid areas - your tortoise will be exploring, testing, looking for places to feel secure, and looking for good food sources. They are the most active of tortoises. It will feel most secure pushed into a corner, as opposed to "looking for humidity" As a result provide it with good choices of lush bushes to hide beneath, where it is kept more moist, or a small hide to retreat to that is well insulated from the heat of the sun. I also am in California, but even with drought restriction, the health of my tortoises is still important. I set my sprinklers to come on for just 1 minute 4 times every two hours. That's only 4 minutes of sprinkler time to make it rain and the tortoises respond! Sulcatas thrive in the monsoon season. On a hot summer day, even a 1 minute rain shower to wet them down is so good for them!

Follow the guides here on the forum. Keep in mind - your tortoise is still the equivalent of a yearling. The best info you need is here on this forum.

Awesome ideas! Thank you so much!

I guess I tend to anthropomorphize the tort a bit too much. I'm just judging by the fact that he tries to get out or go into his shell every time I put him in the water and the fastest I've ever seen the tort move is when the sprinklers come on; tort heads for cover immediately. It's reassuring to know that the sprinklers are fine for the tort and i'm gunna re-program them right away to come on more frequently and for a shorter time. Also going to just keep soaking him knowing its for the best and that tort will get used to it sooner or later.

The 'pushed into a corner' thing couldn't be more right, and I also just assumed that he didn't 'like' the shelters I built for him but I've just been probably over concerned when i see him shoved into a corner because I know nothing about these torts and didn't want it to be miserable.

Tort already seems to have gotten used to me and seems to enjoy being held.

I'll just keep on the chopped up grass thing and assume tort will also get used to that.

I'll put tort out a little later and take tort in a little earlier until tort gets bigger. But at what point should I leave tort out all day?

As far as soil to put in the back yard for it to dig in, any recommendations? Almost all of the store bought stuff has those little white balls of fertilizer in it; they make me a bit worried...

Anyways, killer response and it's really reassuring to hear most of these behaviors are normal and tort looks pretty healthy
Thank you for your time!!
Ian + Yabo

 

[wellington]

I agree with Markw84. However, do keep feeding him every day and if the heat rock is an electric heat rock and not just a rock placed under the basking bulb, then don't use it. Too many animals are burned from them. Tortoises bask from above, they can burn their bottom waiting for their top to warm up. A bigger indoor enclosure is need for proper temp areas and to have a water bowl, hide and food plate. If you get the temps correct, 80 over all day and night with basking 95-100 then wet the substrate cuz humidity needs to be 80%. Anything less really won't stop the pyramiding that has already progressed. Getting your tort outside each day will elk ate you needed UVB inside. Just a 60 watt incandescent bulb will do for basking spot then a ceramic heat emitter for night heat.
Also do put more water into the soak. It should come at least to the point their top and bottom shell meet and I always do even more.

 

[Yvonne G]

And I don't think it's been mentioned, but your tortoise isn't big enough yet to know the sex. I'm willing to bet it turns out to be a cute little boy tortoise.

 

[Grandpa Turtle 144]

Hi Ian

 

[Ian_Yabo]

I agree with Markw84. However, do keep feeding him every day and if the heat rock is an electric heat rock and not just a rock placed under the basking bulb, then don't use it. Too many animals are burned from them. Tortoises bask from above, they can burn their bottom waiting for their top to warm up. A bigger indoor enclosure is need for proper temp areas and to have a water bowl, hide and food plate. If you get the temps correct, 80 over all day and night with basking 95-100 then wet the substrate cuz humidity needs to be 80%. Anything less really won't stop the pyramiding that has already progressed. Getting your tort outside each day will elk ate you needed UVB inside. Just a 60 watt incandescent bulb will do for basking spot then a ceramic heat emitter for night heat.
Also do put more water into the soak. It should come at least to the point their top and bottom shell meet and I always do even more.

Good to know about the heat rock, never even crossed my mind.
I always feed daily, so ill keep up with that.
If I build a large enclosure indoors it would most likely be in my garage where even indoors, in the summer, it spends most of the time in the low to mid 90s during the day. I'm gearing up for that project now, because its going to be a big one and I want to do it right when I do it. I know there's most likely a thread about it somewhere, but a personal recommendation for a substrate would be awesome if you have the time. And how do you keep your substrate moist to promote humidity? I have just been using a spray water bottle between bedding changes.

Thanks for your response, you guys are all awesome!
Ian / Yabo

 

[Ian_Yabo]

And I don't think it's been mentioned, but your tortoise isn't big enough yet to know the sex. I'm willing to bet it turns out to be a cute little boy tortoise.

Lol, yeah I have no solid idea. I gave it a name that could go both ways and I really don't have a preference. From what I read the shape of the bottom of their shell (convex or concave), the tail size and the gap where their little bums are in the shell is supposed to give some indicators but I also read until 4 or 5 years there's no real way to tell. Until then it's just a little tort