comparing russian care to sulcata - main differences?

[marcy4hope]

i have a sulcata and a leopard, so i know how to care for those two breeds of tortoises. my son recently mentioned to me that he wanted a russian. i told him i'd do some research first. i'm reading up on anything i can get my hands on, but also wanted to know if someone raising russians might also have sulcatas and leopards and could line out the major differences in the breeds, like diet, housing, needs for humidity as a baby/juvenile, and particularly hibernation. or if there are already some great links on here that i'm overlooking, please feel free to list those.

thanks.

 

[Spn785]

I would take a look at www.russiantortoise.net There are at least several differences that I know of. First is the temps and humidity, Russians need somewhat lower temps than a sulcata or leopard and lower humidity. A Russian should have a basking temp of about 95, some people say 90-95 others say 95-100. They also need the cool end to be in the low 70s and at night into the low 60s. Humidity needs to be between 40 and 60%. A Russians diet shouldn't really have any grasses in it whereas a Sulcatas or leopards should (If I'm not mistaken), and should consist of mostly greens, with some dark leaf lettuces and such. Weeds should make up most of a Russians diet. You don't have to hibernate a Russian, and in fact it is generally not recomended the first year you have it.

 

[GeoTerraTestudo]

i have a sulcata and a leopard, so i know how to care for those two breeds of tortoises. my son recently mentioned to me that he wanted a russian. i told him i'd do some research first. i'm reading up on anything i can get my hands on, but also wanted to know if someone raising russians might also have sulcatas and leopards and could line out the major differences in the breeds, like diet, housing, needs for humidity as a baby/juvenile, and particularly hibernation. or if there are already some great links on here that i'm overlooking, please feel free to list those.

thanks.

They're not breeds, they're totally different species. Russians come from Central Asia, and are the farthest north tortoise in the world. In nature, they are only active for about 3 months out of the year.

Like all Mediterranean tortoises - and unlike sulcatas and leopards - Russians are browsers, not grazers. Most of their diet consists of leafy greens and weeds, like lettuce, dandelion, endive, arugula, kale, etc. They eat grass occasionally, but not much. You can also give them fruit as a monthly treat, but like sulcatas and leopards, if they eat too much fruit, they'll get diarrhea.

Being smaller, they don't need as much as space as the larger sulcata or leopard tortoise, but they still need quite a bit, because they like to roam.

As for humidity, they are native to arid deserts and semi-arid grasslands, so they don't need much (20-60% relative humidity as adults). Moistened coco coir makes a great substrate. I have not raised them from hatchlings, but like all tortoises, they like to stay concealed to avoid predation. This means they are also exposed to higher humidity levels. I hope someone who has kept them as babies will chime in.

As for hibernation (brumation), in nature in they brumate from November through April (about 6 months, comparable to their cousins, the Ibera Greeks and eastern Hermanns). If they live outdoors in a suitable climate, they should start to wind down in September or October, and emerge in March or April. If you're keeping them indoors and want to brumate them, turn off their heating and stop feeding them for 3 weeks, to make sure their gut is emptied of all food and waste. Then, gradually reduce their temperature. You can then let them brumate in a refrigerator with a moist substrate, at 40-45*F. You don't have to brumate them for the whole 6 months; in fact, it's probably better not to. They can brumate for as little as 2 months. You should check on them once or twice a week during their brumation, misting their box so they don't get dehydrated. In the spring, let them gradually warm up to room temperature and bathe them.

Remember: don't brumate tortoises that are very young, or that show signs of illness, or that don't have enough fat stored up for the winter. Also, don't brumate tortoises the first winter you have them. Some tortoises naturally want to brumate, probably because of the shortening day length. However, if you're keeping your tortoise indoors and he's not showing signs of slowing down for the winter, you don't really need to brumate him at all.

 

[marcy4hope]

thanks for all of the info. i'll check out that other website as well. i appreciate the help to make a decision.

 

[mctlong]

Marcy, I've got both.

Diet. In captivity, they eat the same diet. I feed both my Russian and my sully this diet and it works well: Sully Diet Sheet
You'll hear the rumor that Russians don't eat grass, but its not true. They do graze on fresh grass when available. They do, however, tend to prefer broader-leaf plants like dandelions and clovers (but so does my sully).

Space. Sullies need alot of space due to their sheer size. Russians are super active tortoises and spend a good part of the day, walking around, grazing, trying to escape, etc. Despite their size, they also need alot of outdoor space to thrive.

Portability. Russians are far easier to transport between enclosures, to the vet, etc. They're tiny, super light and easy to carry around. Kids can easily pick them up with one hand. You need Rambo to move a stubborn adult sully.

Temps. Russians prefer cooler temps, on average 10-20 degrees cooler than sullys. Russians also hibernate while sullys don't.

Destructibility. Russians are persistent little buggers, good climbers, and very persistent escape artists. However, they're tiny, so they rarely do physical damage. Sullys are roaming bulldozers who will crash through fences, drywall, and patio furniture.

Personality. Both are super-personable species (around people). Russians, especially males, have a reputation for being aggressive toward other torts. They bite, ram, etc, when they perceive another animal in their territory. Sullys tend be a little less aggressive, but males will still fight.[/align]

Thats all I can think about now.

 

[GeoTerraTestudo]

You'll hear the rumor that Russians don't eat grass, but its not true. They do graze on fresh grass when available. They do, however, tend to prefer broader-leaf plants like dandelions and clovers (but so does my sully).

Well, it's not exactly a rumor, but it's not entirely accurate, either. Russians do eat grass, but it's a tiny proportion of their diet. My Russians they have access to bluegrass, wheatgrass, fescue, and other grasses, and while they do eat them, they do so only rarely. The vast majority of their diet consists of broad-leaved greens and weeds (forbs). Some Testudo keepers here on TFO have reported that their Russians do not eat grass, and refuse it when offered. Thus, Testudo species are primarily browsers, not grazers. They may enjoy getting some grass in them every now and then, but if they never got any at all, I don't think they'd be any worse off for it.

Grass is more abundant that forbs, but it is higher in fiber, and lower in nutrients and protein. In order to break grass down effectively, an animal needs a really long gut to increase retention time. This allows its symbiotic bacteria to work on the fibers, and break them down into digestible food. Most grazers are large animals - like sheep, cattle, white rhinos, etc. - because they need all that space in their body to retain the grass longer. There are a few smaller grazers, like rabbits, but they also have a very long gut for their size.

In the tortoise world, Galapagos, Aldabrans, sulcatas, leopard tortoises, and Gopherus species can afford to graze, because they are so big, and can hold grass inside their body long enough to give their bacteria a chance to break it down (there are some large forest tortoises, too, but they are browsers). Testudos like Russians, Greeks, and Hermanns just aren't big enough, and don't have a long enough gut, to rely on grass as their primary source of food. When my Russians do graze, I notice that the grass seems to come out the other end whole and indigested. Thus, they may be consuming it just for some added fiber, and might not be getting much else out of it. Testudos do like to graze as part of a varied diet, but without forbs, they would not survive.

 

[marcy4hope]

thanks mctlong. this helped me to see a lot of the differences, and similarities, in an easy way. i appreciate it.

Marcy, I've got both.

Diet. In captivity, they eat the same diet. I feed both my Russian and my sully this diet and it works well: Sully Diet Sheet
You'll hear the rumor that Russians don't eat grass, but its not true. They do graze on fresh grass when available. They do, however, tend to prefer broader-leaf plants like dandelions and clovers (but so does my sully).

Space. Sullies need alot of space due to their sheer size. Russians are super active tortoises and spend a good part of the day, walking around, grazing, trying to escape, etc. Despite their size, they also need alot of outdoor space to thrive.

Portability. Russians are far easier to transport between enclosures, to the vet, etc. They're tiny, super light and easy to carry around. Kids can easily pick them up with one hand. You need Rambo to move a stubborn adult sully.

Temps. Russians prefer cooler temps, on average 10-20 degrees cooler than sullys. Russians also hibernate while sullys don't.

Destructibility. Russians are persistent little buggers, good climbers, and very persistent escape artists. However, they're tiny, so they rarely do physical damage. Sullys are roaming bulldozers who will crash through fences, drywall, and patio furniture.

Personality. Both are super-personable species (around people). Russians, especially males, have a reputation for being aggressive toward other torts. They bite, ram, etc, when they perceive another animal in their territory. Sullys tend be a little less aggressive, but males will still fight.[/align]

Thats all I can think about now.