Calling on indian star owners residing in INDIA

[shanu303]

i didn't introduce my new indian star Ben here so ...... here it goes :

i got him on 12th May 2013.....
he came from a village in gujarat 150 km from gandhidham...

his stats...

he weighs 1.875 kg
carapace length = 8.7 inches
plastron length =8.5 inches
width=5.5 inches

he's got an old Dog Bite injury which is completely healed.. but the shell won't grow back....

and here are some pics.....

 

[arotester]

locado999 ,sometimes it's better to search and read about your pet on your own rather than post it becoz most of the times someone already had asked the same question earlier.
I posted on your previous thread so if you need some more help about habitat or diet just PM me.

surre. this helps me alot.
regarding star patterns, I found some star tots similar to that of my tot's size 've developed stars(at early age). But mine are sooth shelled. Do smooth one don't have good star patterns?

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@ ashish
how much will it takes to grow up to 20 cm length? the big one is now measuring 6 cm and other 5 cm.

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As i said earlier that the pattern depends on the genes of the tort which in turn depend on the mom and dad of the tort and not on the shell smoothness.

Well the 20cm mark will take around 7-8 yrs on an average growth rate,but as shanu said it depends a lot on the tort.We had torts for 20 yrs now and i have responsibility of 2nd generation of torts now,and mine grow with their own pace.Larger one has gown to 9 cm in 1 1/2 yrs while other has grown just to about 6.5cm in same time ,so you never know!

 

[shanu303]

Hi,

Moss has been a part of the family since late September last year. He is a feisty little tortoise who knows and takes advantage of his size, big eyes and cuteness to the hilt. Moss spends most of his day sleeping in one of his two hides.

Hello Sonal, the first thing i'd tell you is moss is so CUTE!!! and such a nice shell... seems pretty smooth to me,... keep up the good work........

Everyday, Moss sleeps for around 20 hours, basks for two hours, soaks for 30 minutes, is forced to walk around and exercise for 30 minutes...and spends atleast an hour to make up his mind about all of the other activities!

his schedule is really amazing..... and it's very normal for the stars to sleep that long.... mine do the same

His diet includes cucumber, green peas, aloe vera, cactus, hibiscus leaves/flowers, and greens such as salad leaves, spinach and coriander.

the diet is looking good... but i think you should avoid green peas

here is why: "They are very high in protein and contain high levels of phytic acid. Phytic acid, which is present in the coating of seeds and nuts and is the principle storage form for phosphorous, has an effect similar to that of oxalic acid, in that it prevents the body from absorbing calcium. This, in turn, can lead to your tortoise suffering from kidney stones and other problems, so although Peas and Pea Shoots are not actually toxic, they should not form part of your tortoise’s diet." from: http://www.thetortoisetable.org.uk/site/plants_19.asp?mode=main&catID=705

also avoid spinach as it is too high in protein...

you can add grape vine which is easily available in plant nursery.... and also moderate rose leaves and flower wouldn't harm and also mogra or arabian jasmine or jasminum sambac can be fed moderately......

His night hide is fashioned out of a milk crate with his space made out of an upturned mud-baked chulha and a substrate of red soil found commonly here--- which I use for gardening as well and a bed made of warm cloth and Ashoka tree leaves (pic to follow). His day hide is a shoe box with a garage made of child-safety-approved Lego blocks.

his enclosure is good and make sure you provide a water dish 24/7 large enough for him to soak..... and you can add some plants in his enclosure ...and can you give us the dimensions of the enclosure.....

He is soaked in the afternoon with warm/cold water as per the weather and he is made to exercise during tea time while the whole family sits around and adores him. Moss, on the other hand, butts his way around and tries to climb up the soft belly of my dog, Sandy.

DOGS and TORTOISES don't mix and they should never ever come in contact even in your supervision.... just don't take the risks.... please read tom's thread :http://www.tortoiseforum.org/thread-45850.html

We have had Moss for almost nine months now. And they have been fun and nightmarish (literally...with both my husband and I having had bad dreams about Moss slipping away like a naked cartoon tortoise while we are bathing him). For further peace of mind, could you good people please answer a few queries:

1) What is his age and is he growing at a normal rate?
We have measured his shell size at:
Oct'12: 3.2 cms (h), 6.9 cms (l), 5.5 cms (w)
Dec'12: 3.5 cms (h), 7.1 cms (l), 5.8 cms (w)
Mar'13: 4 cms (h) 7.5 cms (l), 6 cms (w)
The latest measurements will be updated in the last week of June.

he's an year old or above..... can't really tell for sure....

2) It has started raining heavily in Pune and there is no sunlight most days. Does he need artificial lighting or can he get by on what's natural? He could also be getting cold. So, could you please tell me what the tortoise core body temperature is?

UV rays can pass through the clouds so no need to worry even on rainy days.... just make sure he doesn't get too wet in the rain..... and you can use a normal yellow incandescent bulb (locally available) as a heat source indoors..... but i think they can normally and easily bare those temps in rainy season.... just make sure he is not too wet to get URI at those temps...

3) Apart from the cuttlefish bones, is there any other natural calcium supplement? Coz the pet stores here do not stock nor understand what I am asking for. Any Hindi names for cuttlefish?

cuttlefish bone is indeed hard to find in some areas... but limestone powder/calcium carbonate/"chunna" powder safe for human consumption can be sprinkled once or twice a week ........

Thanks,
Sonal

you're welcome

 

[locado999]

Now its cool monsoon time, mostly torts get effected with respiratory infections. Heat is most essential requirement now. How to have heat for them in indoor enclosure?

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Is calcium carbonate (lime stone) the one and same which is used in preparing pan(khilli)?

 

[shanu303]

Now its cool monsoon time, mostly torts get effected with respiratory infections. Heat is most essential requirement now. How to have heat for them in indoor enclosure?

---

Is calcium carbonate (lime stone) the one and same which is used in preparing pan(khilli)?

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you can use the normal yellow incandescent bulb available in india ..... it's good source of heat .......

and for the limestone..... i don't know if its khilli ..... just know that its called chuna powder......

 

[arotester]

Now its cool monsoon time, mostly torts get effected with respiratory infections. Heat is most essential requirement now. How to have heat for them in indoor enclosure?

---

Is calcium carbonate (lime stone) the one and same which is used in preparing pan(khilli)?

---

Normal Heat bulb of around 40W will work fine.But you just have to adjust it's height to control the temp.
Do not even try and give khilli to tort it contains lot of chemicals to make it pasty which can hurt the tort.Why don't you try cuttlebone or prickly pears catus pads,they are good for cal.
But personally i never added supplements to the food and my torts are doing great.

 

[locado999]

Normal Heat bulb of around 40W will work fine.But you just have to adjust it's height to control the temp.
Do not even try and give khilli to tort it contains lot of chemicals to make it pasty which can hurt the tort.Why don't you try cuttlebone or prickly pears catus pads,they are good for cal.
But personally i never added supplements to the food and my torts are doing great.

I used to feed them gherkins(dhondakaya in telugu) and spinach daily. They got habituated to that food. I'm trying to feed methi leaves since yesterday as it is rich in Cal. But they aren't eating. What can I do now?

 

[arotester]

Normal Heat bulb of around 40W will work fine.But you just have to adjust it's height to control the temp.
Do not even try and give khilli to tort it contains lot of chemicals to make it pasty which can hurt the tort.Why don't you try cuttlebone or prickly pears catus pads,they are good for cal.
But personally i never added supplements to the food and my torts are doing great.

I used to feed them gherkins(dhondakaya in telugu) and spinach daily. They got habituated to that food. I'm trying to feed methi leaves since yesterday as it is rich in Cal. But they aren't eating. What can I do now?

young torts get used to a particular food and then they tend to deny other things.That's why i insisted in adding lots of variety to the food.
Now,to solve your problem you must firstly add 50% gherkin and add other veggies such as methi,dill,coriander etc and also you can add alfalfa,grasses,weeds etc to it(this must be done by chopping everything fine so that they can't identify the specific food).Slowly as the time goes by start reducing gherkin % from the food,you will see that they start accepting all he foods you give them.
Remember captive torts can eat only what you offer them,they have no choice.

 

[locado999]

Normal Heat bulb of around 40W will work fine.But you just have to adjust it's height to control the temp.
Do not even try and give khilli to tort it contains lot of chemicals to make it pasty which can hurt the tort.Why don't you try cuttlebone or prickly pears catus pads,they are good for cal.
But personally i never added supplements to the food and my torts are doing great.

I used to feed them gherkins(dhondakaya in telugu) and spinach daily. They got habituated to that food. I'm trying to feed methi leaves since yesterday as it is rich in Cal. But they aren't eating. What can I do now?

young torts get used to a particular food and then they tend to deny other things.That's why i insisted in adding lots of variety to the food.
Now,to solve your problem you must firstly add 50% gherkin and add other veggies such as methi,dill,coriander etc and also you can add alfalfa,grasses,weeds etc to it(this must be done by chopping everything fine so that they can't identify the specific food).Slowly as the time goes by start reducing gherkin % from the food,you will see that they start accepting all he foods you give them.
Remember captive torts can eat only what you offer them,they have no choice.

kk bro.
But alfalfa seeds are hard for them to eat. should they be boiled in water?
And I don't know where to get cuttlebone. 
Is dandelion available in India?
Coming to weeds, what sort of weed plants can be fed?

 

[arotester]

you never feed any seeds to the tort.I am talking about the alfalfa hay that you feed to the cattle's.
If you can't find the cuttlebone then it's ok,you can feed them prickly pears pads.
Weeds,well i am not sure about the indian names but this site might help http://www.africantortoise.com/edible_landscaping.htm
you must google a few to know the local names,that's how i did it.
Dandelions are available in india,but you must be lucky to find it.

 

[shanu303]

you never feed any seeds to the tort.I am talking about the alfalfa hay that you feed to the cattle's.
If you can't find the cuttlebone then it's ok,you can feed them prickly pears pads.
Weeds,well i am not sure about the indian names but this site might help http://www.africantortoise.com/edible_landscaping.htm
you must google a few to know the local names,that's how i did it.
Dandelions are available in india,but you must be lucky to find it.

Ashish can you please give the local / indian name of prickly pear because i've been to couple of nurseries and they either they don't recognise it or they don't have it....... and can you suggest local weed names...... that'd be a great help ......

and also where do we exactly get the alfalfa seeds....??? and if the grass is available then is it like hay or fresh grass..... i'm asking this because here in jaipur we have a man deliver cow's food and it isn't exactly pure grass but i'll post a pic of it so please id that if possible......and last question is if the feed is safe to feed to cows , then is it safe for tortoises also especially indian stars???

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and one more thing.... are banana leaves safe to feed???

 

[arotester]

Ashish can you please give the local / indian name of prickly pear because i've been to couple of nurseries and they either they don't recognise it or they don't have it....... and can you suggest local weed names...... that'd be a great help ......

and also where do we exactly get the alfalfa seeds....??? and if the grass is available then is it like hay or fresh grass..... i'm asking this because here in jaipur we have a man deliver cow's food and it isn't exactly pure grass but i'll post a pic of it so please id that if possible......and last question is if the feed is safe to feed to cows , then is it safe for tortoises also especially indian stars???

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and one more thing.... are banana leaves safe to feed???

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Actually best place to get alfalfa hay is the farm(they call it ghaas),just ask the farmer for it and he'll give it to you(farmers in India are nice aren't they?).Alfalfa hay is safe for torts.
About prickly pears(a type of cactus),you must find it in the reputed nurseries or if not then hilly areas is your best bet.

 

[arotester]

has anyone used Jackson's ratio to judge their torts......If yes then plz share your thoughts about it

 

[shanu303]

has anyone used Jackson's ratio to judge their torts......If yes then plz share your thoughts about it

i used method posted on this thread : http://www.tortoiseforum.org/thread-38420.html

and the BMI i got was 0.91 so i guess it lies in the healthy tort range....

and in the jackson ratio i got this : Jackson Ratio of 0.17 indicates an animal which is light for hibernation. However, a healthy, but active male or a tortoise with very flared scutes could also give this result.

so i guess they're not too far from each other.... and in reality Ben is an eating machine(well not really that much) and he's very active and no signs of drowsiness or whatsoever ........ so i guess these ratio and BMI stuff works efficiently......

but i saw on other website that jackson ratio is only for the Testudo Graeca (Mediterranean Spur-Thighed Tortoise) and Testudo Hermanni (Hermanns tortoise)

 

[arotester]

has anyone used Jackson's ratio to judge their torts......If yes then plz share your thoughts about it

i used method posted on this thread : http://www.tortoiseforum.org/thread-38420.html

and the BMI i got was 0.91 so i guess it lies in the healthy tort range....

and in the jackson ratio i got this : Jackson Ratio of 0.17 indicates an animal which is light for hibernation. However, a healthy, but active male or a tortoise with very flared scutes could also give this result.

so i guess they're not too far from each other.... and in reality Ben is an eating machine(well not really that much) and he's very active and no signs of drowsiness or whatsoever ........ so i guess these ratio and BMI stuff works efficiently......

but i saw on other website that jackson ratio is only for the Testudo Graeca (Mediterranean Spur-Thighed Tortoise) and Testudo Hermanni (Hermanns tortoise)

So you used both the methods and by jackson's ratio you found that your tort is a bit light in weight,so did you measure the weight before your tort pooped or after.Is there any such guidelines to measure the weight?
I am a bit confused in this part of the procedure

 

[shanu303]

has anyone used Jackson's ratio to judge their torts......If yes then plz share your thoughts about it

i used method posted on this thread : http://www.tortoiseforum.org/thread-38420.html

and the BMI i got was 0.91 so i guess it lies in the healthy tort range....

and in the jackson ratio i got this : Jackson Ratio of 0.17 indicates an animal which is light for hibernation. However, a healthy, but active male or a tortoise with very flared scutes could also give this result.

so i guess they're not too far from each other.... and in reality Ben is an eating machine(well not really that much) and he's very active and no signs of drowsiness or whatsoever ........ so i guess these ratio and BMI stuff works efficiently......

but i saw on other website that jackson ratio is only for the Testudo Graeca (Mediterranean Spur-Thighed Tortoise) and Testudo Hermanni (Hermanns tortoise)

So you used both the methods and by jackson's ratio you found that your tort is a bit light in weight,so did you measure the weight before your tort pooped or after.Is there any such guidelines to measure the weight?
I am a bit confused in this part of the procedure

actually you need to take the weight of your tort several times in a day.... once when he/she wakes up..... after soak...... after poop..... after feeding time .... and so on ..... then you take the mean/average of it..... that way you can eliminate errors to best possible extent..... and another thing is that jackson's ratio is not really meant for indian stars... rather its for the hermanns and the mediterranean spur thighed i.e the hibernating species........ that's what i read on several different sites...

 

[shanu303]

Hi all, great to find this thread after a lot of reading others which were not localized . I got two stars (whom we named Honey and Momo ) around 8 days back. They are said to be around 4 months old by the pet shop owner .

He fed them and asked me to continue feeding lady finger and cucumber.

After reading a lot I have been trying to feed them grass, coriander , leaves but they won't eat those.

I have tried mixing greens with lady finger but it sorts it out. Also tried restricting for a long time (one day) without lady finger assuming that they will eat due to hunger but no success.

I have today mixed powdered calcium sandos and plan to repeat that every three days.

I am keeping them in a plastic crate enclosure with newspaper substrate on one side and coconut tree trunk coir on the other. I have got a small crate placed next where I plan to fill soil and create a tunnel between the two crates. Any sugesstions on enclosure substrate and food habit changing procedure are welcome

Hello There.... you got very cute little stars! and Welcome to TFO!! first of all i'd like to say is stop using calcium sandos ... those aren't calcium in the purest form..... and they're made for human consumption....they contain sugar or sweetness which cannot be digested or broken down by the tortoise's gut/alimentary canal.... instead use prickly pears or calcium carbonate powder.... regarding the food now.... if they aren't eating the green leafy stuff... what i suggest is you blend some cucumber with a little coriander + hibiscus leaves + hibiscus flowers + grass + aloe vera and other stuff and make a slurry.... in that the quantity of the food they like should be more... start with 60-50 % cucumber and little of the green leafs etc... try to lower the quantity of cucumber and increase the quantity of the green leafy stuff gradually.... this will develop a taste of coriander and other leafy stuff and they will be used to eating that stuff..... and regarding the enclosure .... it's small you need to have a bigger enclosure with soil and multiple hides... and you need to expose them to mild sunlight(with shade) at least 5-6 hours per day..... and remember to do a lukewarm water soak for 15-25 min per day... this will prevent pyramiding to most extent... and also remember to spray there shells 2-3 times a day to keep them hydrated and also provide a water dish bigger than the size of the torts and it should be shallow to prevent drowning...

 

[sunster]

Hi ...
I just got a pair of stars yesterday. Have kept them for the time being in a tray with newspaper as substrate for the time being (see pix). In the process of making a proper enclosure. I was wondering if I could use fern leaves/ blades as a substrate and if so would the stars be harmed if they eat the ferns. Also, could you help with the lighting. Where can I get a good heating light for them. Nothing available in mumbai from brands like Exo Terra etc.

 

[Yvonne G]

Hi ...
I just got a pair of stars yesterday. Have kept them for the time being in a tray with newspaper as substrate for the time being (see pix). In the process of making a proper enclosure. I was wondering if I could use fern leaves/ blades as a substrate and if so would the stars be harmed if they eat the ferns. Also, could you help with the lighting. Where can I get a good heating light for them. Nothing available in mumbai from brands like Exo Terra etc.

Can you order online? Amazon.com sells these type of things.

 

[shanu303]

Hello sunster, welcome to TFO you got really gorgeous stars..... regarding the heating light i think arotester(one of the members) might help.... he lives in mumbai and i think at one point he bought a UV light.... so shoot him a private message and i hope you get a solution.... otherwise you can buy online like Yvonne said.... or you can use the ever shining and freely available sunlight for UV and heat in daytime and at night you can use incandescent bulb 40W-50W locally available at any electric store for heat.... and make sure that bulb is attached in a holder which reflects light at a point and not dispersed in every direction....