Breathing - Clicking/popping sound

[p1ngu]

Hi! I'm new to owning a tortoise, so maybe I'm overreacting... But is clicking/popping breathing always a (early) sign of RI?

I have a 1 y-o Hermann's tortoise. He's active, eats, drinks and poops normally & has clear eyes/nose/mouth (no discharge etc, which I've read is a clear sign of RI), but he's making a clicking/popping sound when breathing. I can't say how long it has been going on, because his activity level is normal and I only noticed it when I put him closer to my ear (the sound is rather quiet, but that could be because he's really small - about 52mm and 30g).
He lives in an indoor enclosure with a mesh top, bedding is topsoil+sand+sphagnum. He has 14h of LED daylight and 6h of T5 10% UVB. Temps are controlled by a thermostat - DHP basking around 34C (93F), daytime 26C (79F), nighttime is set to 22C (72F) (but nighttime temps have so far always been warmer than that). Humidity is around 60-70%.

I tried to record it - Google Drive link. Again, it's really quiet, but headphone users might spot it (I can for example hear it between seconds 2-3, 7-9, 14-16).

Should I book a vet appointment or wait and see (and try to change something - temps/humidity?)? I know it's an odd question because the vet would know the best, but I live in an area where the first available herp vet appointment is in November UNLESS his situation is critical.

 

[zovick]

Hi! I'm new to owning a tortoise, so maybe I'm overreacting... But is clicking/popping breathing always a (early) sign of RI?

I have a 1 y-o Hermann's tortoise. He's active, eats, drinks and poops normally & has clear eyes/nose/mouth (no discharge etc, which I've read is a clear sign of RI), but he's making a clicking/popping sound when breathing. I can't say how long it has been going on, because his activity level is normal and I only noticed it when I put him closer to my ear (the sound is rather quiet, but that could be because he's really small - about 52mm and 30g).
He lives in an indoor enclosure with a mesh top, bedding is topsoil+sand+sphagnum. He has 14h of LED daylight and 6h of T5 10% UVB. Temps are controlled by a thermostat - DHP basking around 34C (93F), daytime 26C (79F), nighttime is set to 22C (72F) (but nighttime temps have so far always been warmer than that). Humidity is around 60-70%.

I tried to record it - Google Drive link. Again, it's really quiet, but headphone users might spot it (I can for example hear it between seconds 2-3, 7-9, 14-16).

Should I book a vet appointment or wait and see (and try to change something - temps/humidity?)? I know it's an odd question because the vet would know the best, but I live in an area where the first available herp vet appointment is in November UNLESS his situation is critical.

If you can hear that clicking sound, there is a problem. Try increasing the heat to around 90 degrees throughout the entire enclosure in daytime and 80 at night. If you can get the humidity up to 80% that would probably help, too, but the temps are the most critical thing at the moment.

If the icreased temps do not solve the problem, you probably need a vet to prescribe an injectable antibiotic for the tortoise (ceftazidime is best). I would not recommend Baytril.

Good luck!

 

[wellington]

You need to get rid of all the substrate as it all can either cause impaction or has unknown garbage in it. Coconut coir or orchid bark should be used.
Raise temp day and night to 85, I wouldn't go as high as 90 personally but leave the basking temp as is.
Is the led a coil type? Coiled bulbs should not be used. What are you using for the basking bulb?

 

[zolasmum]

Welcome to the forum - where in Europe do you live.? I'm in England, and have a Hermanns tortoise too. He is 23 years old now, and the most important member of our family !
Please also get rid of your moss bedding - moss is dangerous, as it can be eaten on purpose, or by accident, stuck to food - it can cause impaction, which can be a very serious problem.
Angie

 

[p1ngu]

Thank you all for your responses, it's very helpful!

If you can hear that clicking sound, there is a problem. Try increasing the heat to around 90 degrees throughout the entire enclosure in daytime and 80 at night. If you can get the humidity up to 80% that would probably help, too, but the temps are the most critical thing at the moment.

If the icreased temps do not solve the problem, you probably need a vet to prescribe an injectable antibiotic for the tortoise (ceftazidime is best). I would not recommend Baytril.

Good luck!

I'll raise the temperatures, and try to keep the humidity higher, too.

You need to get rid of all the substrate as it all can either cause impaction or has unknown garbage in it. Coconut coir or orchid bark should be used.
Raise temp day and night to 85, I wouldn't go as high as 90 personally but leave the basking temp as is.
Is the led a coil type? Coiled bulbs should not be used. What are you using for the basking bulb?

UVB lamp is 10% T5 (it's 80cm long tube, covering about 2/3 of his enclosure). For the heat I'm using halogen flood bulb for the daytime basking, and Deep Heat Projector for the night - it's without a visible light. I now also added a CHE on the cool side.

Welcome to the forum - where in Europe do you live.? I'm in England, and have a Hermanns tortoise too. He is 23 years old now, and the most important member of our family !
Please also get rid of your moss bedding - moss is dangerous, as it can be eaten on purpose, or by accident, stuck to food - it can cause impaction, which can be a very serious problem.
Angie

I got actual sphagnum moss and peat moss (also called 'sphagnum peat moss') mixed. It's peat moss I'm using! But it's probably still wrong to use it, now that I have learned that top soil and sand are bad... They're commonly used (as Mediterranean tortoise substrate) in Finland (where I'm from), and I saw this type of substrate also recommended in the Sticky Threads' guides by Yvonne G and HermanniChris.

I'll look into coco coir. Bark seems a bit too rough for now, because my tortoise likes to dig.

 

[wellington]

Thank you all for your responses, it's very helpful!


I'll raise the temperatures, and try to keep the humidity higher, too.


UVB lamp is 10% T5 (it's 80cm long tube, covering about 2/3 of his enclosure). For the heat I'm using halogen flood bulb for the daytime basking, and Deep Heat Projector for the night - it's without a visible light. I now also added a CHE on the cool side.


I got actual sphagnum moss and peat moss (also called 'sphagnum peat moss') mixed. It's peat moss I'm using! But it's probably still wrong to use it, now that I have learned that top soil and sand are bad... They're commonly used (as Mediterranean tortoise substrate) in Finland (where I'm from), and I saw this type of substrate also recommended in the Sticky Threads' guides by Yvonne G and HermanniChris.

I'll look into coco coir. Bark seems a bit too rough for now, because my tortoise likes to dig.

Halogen bulbs are not recommended. Use a incandescent flood bulb or a regular incandescent bulb. No halogen, no mercury vapor bulbs, no coil bulbs.
As for the substrate, moss will also cause impactions too and can tangle both inside and outside. Years ago I had to pull a piece of the sphagnum moss off my leopard, it was tangled.
I'm afraid the sand has never been good and the soil has been found more recently than the thread is, to have lots of garbage in it you don't want your tortoise to possibly eat.
Some people will still use sand and moss, but when they learn better or the hard way, they will realize they were wrong.

 

[fluffybubble66]

Welcome to the forum - where in Europe do you live.? I'm in England, and have a Hermanns tortoise too. He is 23 years old now, and the most important member of our family !
Please also get rid of your moss bedding - moss is dangerous, as it can be eaten on purpose, or by accident, stuck to food - it can cause impaction, which can be a very serious problem.
Angie

Hi angie. I'm in the UK top. I fond lots of responses on here are based on American situations so I'm pleased to see you're in the UK and have a healthy tort. Sorry to bother you but do you brumate your tort please. I'm assuming with the UK weather yours is kept inside mostly in a heated environment. I have a horsefield almost 2 got him last year so didn't brumate and just wondering whether to do it this year or not because I'm terrified ill get it wrong! Thank you

 

[zolasmum]

Hi angie. I'm in the UK top. I fond lots of responses on here are based on American situations so I'm pleased to see you're in the UK and have a healthy tort. Sorry to bother you but do you brumate your tort please. I'm assuming with the UK weather yours is kept inside mostly in a heated environment. I have a horsefield almost 2 got him last year so didn't brumate and just wondering whether to do it this year or not because I'm terrified ill get it wrong! Thank you

Hello - it's always good to meet a fellow UK person her. I actually live in Devon, which is not usually very cold, and we decided early on not to brumate Zola - he had a damaged shell, for one thing, and also, like you, we were terrified of getting it wrong !
He has a heated conservatory, and in that is an area for his basking lamp and food, and a separate hide, next to it, which has a heat mat. My personal inclination would be not to brumate your boy this year, and then think about it as a possibility next year.
I'll write more later, but we are just going out to take Zola for his daily trip to look at the sea !!
Angie

 

[fluffybubble66]

Hello - it's always good to meet a fellow UK person her. I actually live in Devon, which is not usually very cold, and we decided early on not to brumate Zola - he had a damaged shell, for one thing, and also, like you, we were terrified of getting it wrong !
He has a heated conservatory, and in that is an area for his basking lamp and food, and a separate hide, next to it, which has a heat mat. My personal inclination would be not to brumate your boy this year, and then think about it as a possibility next year.
I'll write more later, but we are just going out to take Zola for his daily trip to look at the sea !!
Angie

I'm in holbeach on the east coast so we are a little cooler. Well this year was an exceptionally hot year so Tom has been in the garden with us alot. Tom has an indoor tank with a basking light one end and hide the other. He has some pyramiding we think from when we got him as it doesn't seem to be getting any worse and otherwise he seems OK. He sleeps alot but comes out a couple of times a day for food and he comes to me when I open the tank. I bath him every few days and he has a large pool but doesn't really use that. Grow my own veg here do he has a good supply of that.
Very lovely to meet you (and zola)

 

[zolasmum]

Hello -FB66- When we take Zola out, people often ask if we brumate him, and my husband (the tortoise -carrier) says -tortoises have an innate capacity to brumate when necessary, but if the environment doesn't require it, then they probably don't need to do so. This is how it seems to us, anyway. So if Tom is in an appropriate environment, with everything he needs, he should be fine not brumating. But I'm not an expert - it's just what we have learned from Zola. Maybe other people on the forum will disagree, of course. And I think that if they start brumating, then they should have the opportunity to do so.
We take Zola out every day - here is a photo of him enjoying an exciting long walk in Bude.
Angie