Baby sulcata and his new tortoise table

[KODY CORDUAN]

Hello everyone. I just got Bilbo Baggins (see his hobbit hole) and figured it is a good idea to jump in a forum and be sure I'm doing everything to ensure believes longer than me! Ha.
I live in Los Angeles.. yes I have a yard .. and am actively pursuing his diet change from leafy greens to grasses gradually. I soak him twice a day and keep his moss and hide moist. Ill be getting him a clip on red basking lamp tomorrow. He is approximately 2.5 inches.

Oops apparently I'm having trouble uploading pictures on my phone.. Ill have to get on the computer tomorrow!

 

[Big Charlie]

Welcome! Don't get a red light. It makes things look a weird color and torts don't understand it.
Before you change anything, read our guides.
http://www.tortoiseforum.org/threads/how-to-raise-a-healthy-sulcata-or-leopard-version-2-0.79895/
http://www.tortoiseforum.org/threads/sulcata-diet-sheet.64290/
http://www.tortoiseforum.org/threads/african-spurred-tortoise-sulcata-care-sheet.52524/
http://www.tortoiseforum.org/threads/for-those-who-have-a-young-sulcata.76744/

 

[Tidgy's Dad]

And, first off : http://www.tortoiseforum.org/threads/beginner-mistakes.45180/
Hello, Kody, and a very warm welcome to Tortoise Forum to you and Bilbo Baggins.
(though i notice this Baggins doesn't have hairy feet. Thankfully.)

 

[Grandpa Turtle 144]

Hi Kody

 

[Taylor T.]

Welcome!

Instead of a red light, use a CHE (ceramic heat emitter) they produce no light so they will give your tortoise complete darkness at night.

 

[Tom]

Hello and welcome.

Read those threads ASAP. Babies have a small margin of error. Your baby doesn't have time for you to figure this all out. Most of the info out in the world for this species is wrong and based on 30 year old incorrect assumptions of how they live in the wild. It sounds like you are on the right track with daily soaks and a humid hide, but tortoise tables and red bulbs are not the way to go. You need white light for basking during the day, and a CHE set on a thermostat to maintain a warm ambient temp day and night. Its all explained in the care sheet.

 

[Yvonne G]

Welcome!

 

[RosemaryDW]

Welcome to the forum!

I know it's a lot to take in but the care sheets will definitely get your baby on the right track to a long, healthy life.

 

[KODY CORDUAN]

Thank you all very much for the great info, I'll be heading pout in a minute to get a ceramic bulb! The care sheets have been a huge help Big Charlie, thanks again.

 

[KODY CORDUAN]

 

[Yvonne G]

That's a nice-looking and very natural-looking habitat. You may have to figure out a way to make a framework, though, so you can cover it to keep the cooler air from the house out, and the warm, moist air in.

 

[KODY CORDUAN]

And, first off : http://www.tortoiseforum.org/threads/beginner-mistakes.45180/
Hello, Kody, and a very warm welcome to Tortoise Forum to you and Bilbo Baggins.
(though i notice this Baggins doesn't have hairy feet. Thankfully.)

Ha, no hair on his feet.. but i think the spurs are an ok substitute eh?! Thank you for that care sheet, it was very thorough and helpful!

 

[KODY CORDUAN]

That's a nice-looking and very natural-looking habitat. You may have to figure out a way to make a framework, though, so you can cover it to keep the cooler air from the house out, and the warm, moist air in.

Yes I will be monitoring that. He is in my office room at the house, which doesn't get the conditioned air so much.. it stays 75 - 80. I'm soaking him twice a day and keeping his moss moist. Are there any signs I can look for to see if the conditions are not ample for him?

 

[KODY CORDUAN]

Hi Kody
View attachment 214820

Thank you, we just got back from Hawaii so your welcome picture is fitting!

 

[KODY CORDUAN]

Hello and welcome.

Read those threads ASAP. Babies have a small margin of error. Your baby doesn't have time for you to figure this all out. Most of the info out in the world for this species is wrong and based on 30 year old incorrect assumptions of how they live in the wild. It sounds like you are on the right track with daily soaks and a humid hide, but tortoise tables and red bulbs are not the way to go. You need white light for basking during the day, and a CHE set on a thermostat to maintain a warm ambient temp day and night. Its all explained in the care sheet.

Perfect, I will be off to grab both those bulbs in a few, thank you for the info

 

[Tom]

Yes I will be monitoring that. He is in my office room at the house, which doesn't get the conditioned air so much.. it stays 75 - 80. I'm soaking him twice a day and keeping his moss moist. Are there any signs I can look for to see if the conditions are not ample for him?

• The entire enclosure needs to be 80 degrees and 80+% humidity day and night, with a warmer basking area during the day. There is no way to accomplish this in an open topped enclosure. If you put up a bunch of heat lamps and CHEs to maintain those temps, the air will dry out. Having an open topped enclosure is like submerging your frosty summer beverage in a hot tub. Unless you have a lid, the hot tub water and your drink will merge and equalize. Same with your enclosure air and the room air. Open topped tables only work if the room conditions are the same conditions your animal needs. For adults of many Testudo species, cooler drier room air is fine, and so tables are popular and recommended for them. No so with tropical species that need warm temps and humidity. What you will learn in time is that your dry air in the enclosure will make the tortoise pyramid. Pyramiding is ire-everalable, and you will have to look at it for the rest of this tortoises life. Pyramiding is caused by growth in conditions that are too dry. Your open enclosure will be too dry. Get him in something more suitable ASAP, before any new growth occurs.

• Your water bowl is dangerous for a baby tortoise. Terra cotta plant saucers sunk into the substrate work best. You can use a second one for food.

• A note about the moss. Your enclosure looks really cool……. but… I've raised a lot of baby sulcatas. All of them try to eat any sort of moss I've ever put in their enclosures. So is that moss safe for consumption? If it is safe, is it okay for that stuff to take up a lot of stomach space from the things they should be eating? Questions for you to ponder. Personally, I won't use it, and it isn't needed, even though it does make things look nice.

Hope these things help. Please feel free to ask questions, argue points or ask me to explain my assertions further. No offense will be taken.

 

[KODY CORDUAN]

Wonderful, thank you for taking the time. Ok so as for the humidity, if I keep heat lamps running as well as misting thoroughly his enclosure throughout the day, it would maintain humidity far higher than the room, unless I allowed all the water to evaporate before re soaking. I am building a waterfall pool area, filled with rocks so he cannot fall in, which will be under the basking lamp which will certainly produce a high level of humidity rising consistently. What are ypur thoughts?
I do see that the water bowl is too deep and will correct that asap! Thanks for the suggestion.
Yes! He has been eating the moss while I fight the loosing battle of keeping him from doing so! I did some research and found that there was nothing inherently bad about it, though what you mentioned make a sense. If I am sure to keep him fed in the morning and have plenty of food in there with him to graze on throughout the day, would it seem harmless to keep the spagnum moss in there? The reason I ask is that it seems to be one of the best substrates for high moisture with very minimal risk of mold.
I look forward to your insight.

 

[KODY CORDUAN]

Ah I see you're in southern cal as well

 

[KODY CORDUAN]

Also, with the water this shallow and the pebbles that allow him to climb out, does this pose any danger?

 

[Tom]

Wonderful, thank you for taking the time. Ok so as for the humidity, if I keep heat lamps running as well as misting thoroughly his enclosure throughout the day, it would maintain humidity far higher than the room, unless I allowed all the water to evaporate before re soaking. I am building a waterfall pool area, filled with rocks so he cannot fall in, which will be under the basking lamp which will certainly produce a high level of humidity rising consistently. What are ypur thoughts?
I do see that the water bowl is too deep and will correct that asap! Thanks for the suggestion.
Yes! He has been eating the moss while I fight the loosing battle of keeping him from doing so! I did some research and found that there was nothing inherently bad about it, though what you mentioned make a sense. If I am sure to keep him fed in the morning and have plenty of food in there with him to graze on throughout the day, would it seem harmless to keep the spagnum moss in there? The reason I ask is that it seems to be one of the best substrates for high moisture with very minimal risk of mold.
I look forward to your insight.

Misting does very little to the ambient humidity for more than a few minutes and in reality, it can't be kept up over time. Same thing with your waterfall. In a normal dry room the small amount of humidity it generates through evaporation will be diluted with the dry room air immediately.

Believe me, I know what a pain in the rear it is to be told your awesome enclosure that you worked so hard to make look so good, isn't going to work, but I've been down this road many times. I tried and tried to find a way to make that work for many years, only to end up with pyramided tortoises. I've tried automatic misters, automatic sprayers, all types of humidifiers, various ways of closing in the tops, all sorts of substrates, etc… You just can't fight physics. A large volume of cool dry air is going to dilute a small volume of warm humid air, if there is no barrier between the two bodies of air. Close in the small volume and VOILA! Life is much easier, and you are burning less carapace desiccating electricity to maintain ideal temps. This saves the tortoise's shell while saving you money on the electric bill. The only way that enclosure will work is if you close of that room heat it to 80 degrees 24/7 and humidity the entire room to 80+% all the time. This is very difficult to do in SoCal and it leaves to the destruction of the room. Go ahead. Ask me how I know this...

If your tortoise is already eating the moss, you need to pull it. It will only get worse. There is a reason, or several reasons, why "moss" is not on any feeding lists for your tortoise. Its not good for them to be eating it. By leaving it in there, you are basically feeding it to him.

I just want to reiterate. Not trying to give you a hard time and I know this isn't all good news. But the idea of this whole forum is to help other not make the same mistakes that we've all made ourselves. I don't want you to have to learn what I already know the hard way, and at your tortoises expense.

Here are a couple of older threads explaining more about this:
http://www.tortoiseforum.org/threads/closed-chambers.32333/
http://www.tortoiseforum.org/threads/the-end-of-pyramiding.15137/