AS A GENERAL RULE

[bigred]

I was just wondering what you folks do, What size do you let your torts in the big boy pen outside with no chicken wire or enclosure to run around outside. Im not really being species specific here just wondering. I have a couple that are at the 5 and 6 inch range and have been letting them roam lately. Im always concerned about birds, it only takes a second for one to ruin your day. I always secure all my torts at night

 

[Cowboy_Ken]

Concerning birds, I would mostly be worried about urbanized crows or ravens. I wouldn't be worried about birds of prey. I'm very rural and the crows know better than to trust humans and their things. But if I were to live in town and have to deal with French fry eating crows, I'd keep enclosures covered for the most part always.

 

[lynnedit]

My outdoor enclosure is just to large for a cover. Birds would be our main issue. I tried bird netting in one area; it was a mess, as leaves got stuck in it, and occasionally a song bird would get stuck underneath it. I don't necessarily want to keep songbirds out, they need feeding areas too!
I do have structures, shrubs and wire sides that would prevent large birds being able to land in some areas.
When the tortoises are out there, I make sure mine are hidden away for the night.

I am thinking about the idea of stringing fishing line (Will's suggestion) every 1 foot, or so, across the top to prevent birds with larger wing spans from being able to land in certain areas.

 

[bigred]

Concerning birds, I would mostly be worried about urbanized crows or ravens. I wouldn't be worried about birds of prey. I'm very rural and the crows know better than to trust humans and their things. But if I were to live in town and have to deal with French fry eating crows, I'd keep enclosures covered for the most part always.

We have french fry eating crows thats for sure

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My outdoor enclosure is just to large for a cover. Birds would be our main issue. I tried bird netting in one area; it was a mess, as leaves got stuck in it, and occasionally a song bird would get stuck underneath it. I don't necessarily want to keep songbirds out, they need feeding areas too!
I do have structures, shrubs and wire sides that would prevent large birds being able to land in some areas.
When the tortoises are out there, I make sure mine are hidden away for the night.

I am thinking about the idea of stringing fishing line (Will's suggestion) every 1 foot, or so, across the top to prevent birds with larger wing spans from being able to land in certain areas.

My sister used fishing line for her pool to keep the birds out

 

[tortoise007]

whats the big problem with "french fry eating crows" ? Do they peck at the torts or something?

 

[Levi the Leopard]

I keep a 5+" russian and a 4+" leopard in outdoor pens without lids. They are large pens with trees, and LOTS of crazy overgrown weeds and grass. I feel they have enough cover to be out of sight and hidden most of the day. I sometimes have a hard time finding them. I lock up my russian just before dark and bring in my leopard during the early evening. The pens are in a side area of my yard fully fenced in.

Just a side note: Currently, I am ok with no lids for my pens. However, I understand there are other circumstances where lids would be better.

 

[Cowboy_Ken]

Crows are opportunists. If they see easy food they go for it. French fry eating crows are very comfortable around humans and therefor IMO are more likely to pose a risk to captive tortoises.

 

[Levi the Leopard]

whats the big problem with "french fry eating crows" ? Do they peck at the torts or something?

I dont have these in my current city, but had too many where I grew up.

They are birds with no fear. Destructive, trouble makers. Mischievous. Get into whatever they can and sure can be a pest. Plus, their lack of fear for people (example: cuz people feed them french fries) means that they will get into trouble in your yard, on your car, at you!

I wouldn't put it past a "french fry crow" to pick up a small tort and toss it around. Or fly to a light pole top and drop the small lil guy...

 

[Yvonne G]

If the pen is wide open, I would worry about birds carrying off small tortoises. I should think that once the tortoise is about 4" (oh my...the 4" rule applies to birds too!) he might be safer from birds carrying him away, however, crows and ravens sit on the ground with the young tortoise and peck at it until they get an opening.

http://www.iol.co.za/scitech/scienc...come-a-feast-for-crows-1.1427276#.UVMxIxdOMTE

In this article, read the last bit under "adaptations":
http://tolweb.org/treehouses/?treehouse_id=3167

http://www.conservation-science.com...ports\Boarman 02-Reducing Raven Predation.pdf

 

[bigred]

whats the big problem with "french fry eating crows" ? Do they peck at the torts or something?

I dont have these in my current city, but had too many where I grew up.

They are birds with no fear. Destructive, trouble makers. Mischievous. Get into whatever they can and sure can be a pest. Plus, their lack of fear for people (example: cuz people feed them french fries) means that they will get into trouble in your yard, on your car, at you!

I wouldn't put it past a "french fry crow" to pick up a small tort and toss it around. Or fly to a light pole top and drop the small lil guy...

Where I work crows come in to the building and pull fast food wrappers out of the trash can

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If the pen is wide open, I would worry about birds carrying off small tortoises. I should think that once the tortoise is about 4" (oh my...the 4" rule applies to birds too!) he might be safer from birds carrying him away, however, crows and ravens sit on the ground with the young tortoise and peck at it until they get an opening.

http://www.iol.co.za/scitech/scienc...come-a-feast-for-crows-1.1427276#.UVMxIxdOMTE

In this article, read the last bit under "adaptations":
http://tolweb.org/treehouses/?treehouse_id=3167

http://www.conservation-science.com...ports\Boarman 02-Reducing Raven Predation.pdf

Very interesting, Thank you I didnt know crows were that destructive on torts

 

[Cowboy_Ken]

I, in no way, intended this to be crow bashing. Crows have used complex tools, without being taught, to retrieve food. This is a skill shared only with primates. And with primates, it is passed down, learned behavior. Crows figure it out themselves. The brain weight/body weight/intelligence formula does not work on crows.

 

[Chifte]

Crows seems to be very clever, I don't think they get enough attention from researchers.

I buy these seed bricks and put them in a grated box and hang it from a tree, the little birds love to peck at it and get their fill. I have watched what I believe to be the same crow use a nail to break off large sections of it then use the nail to force the large piece out of the box, then it flies away with it, every now and then I see him do it.