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Hi I have read in so many books to feed alfalfa hay to their leopards. Just wondered if anyone else uses this???
alfalfa
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Hi Pam:
I don't know the scientific facts, I just go by what I learned from feeding my horse. You're supposed to balance the calcium/ phosphorus ratio and too much alfalfa throws the balance off. So I've always fed her a alfalfa/grass hay mixture. I think that too much alfalfa is not good for a horse's kidneys.
So, in this vein, I would not use alfalfa as a staple for my leopard tortoise's diet.
I don't know the scientific facts, I just go by what I learned from feeding my horse. You're supposed to balance the calcium/ phosphorus ratio and too much alfalfa throws the balance off. So I've always fed her a alfalfa/grass hay mixture. I think that too much alfalfa is not good for a horse's kidneys.
So, in this vein, I would not use alfalfa as a staple for my leopard tortoise's diet.
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thanks. wasnt sure if you could use it as it contains moleses and didnt know if it was harmful or not?
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where do u get the mixture or do u make it up yourself? thankyou
I doubt a leopard would eat dry alfalfa hay. Mine won't. I grow my own alfalfa and feed it to them fresh as a small part of their highly varied diet. They eat a little bit mixed in with other weeds, grass and leaves, two or three times a week.
If your alfalfa has molasses mixed in with it, its not alfalfa hay, its what we call chop. This is chopped up alfalfa bound with molasses. It may or may not have other grasses mixed in with it.
I would NOT feed chop to my tortoises.
I would NOT feed chop to my tortoises.
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thanks. much appreciated. x
I've seen a lot of leopards eat alfalfa readily. I don't include it often, but when I do, it is usually eaten a lot more than other types of hays I use. Perhaps it's just mine, but that has been my observation.
Hay Variety Digestible Energy (Mcal/lb) Total Digestible Nutrients (%) Crude Protein (%) Calcium (%) Phosphorus (%)
Alfalfa .8 to 1.1 Mcal/lb 48 to 55% 15 to 20% .9 to 1.5% .2 to .35%
Timothy or Orchard Grass .7 to 1.0 Mcal/lb 42 to 50% 7 to 10% .3 to .5% .2 to .35%
Tall Fescue .7 to .9 Mcal/lb 40 to 48% 5 to 9% .3 to .5% .2 to .35%
Sorry if this formatting gets blown out by the forum (but it is easily figured out left to right if so). If the above table is correct, it looks very good and with a better calcium level and protein level than the comparators. Some of my animals have been fed it for years. No problems here.
Alfalfa .8 to 1.1 Mcal/lb 48 to 55% 15 to 20% .9 to 1.5% .2 to .35%
Timothy or Orchard Grass .7 to 1.0 Mcal/lb 42 to 50% 7 to 10% .3 to .5% .2 to .35%
Tall Fescue .7 to .9 Mcal/lb 40 to 48% 5 to 9% .3 to .5% .2 to .35%
Sorry if this formatting gets blown out by the forum (but it is easily figured out left to right if so). If the above table is correct, it looks very good and with a better calcium level and protein level than the comparators. Some of my animals have been fed it for years. No problems here.
Tom does it the right way...feeding fresh grown! I'm gonna start that soon! As it is, I use alfalfa hay almost exclusively in my meatballs and lasagna...the torts love it! The only dry hay I use now, is in Climber and Jamie's nightbox...it's orchard hay and they eat it, as well!
Baoh: I'm glad you're reading this thread, because I have a question. If a cow, (with more than one stomach), can get bloat from eating green alfalfa, why would it be a good thing to feed green alfalfa to tortoises (with one stomach)?
While I have no experience with leopards, I think the answer for that is: a cow is a mammal, a tortoise is a reptile. Your talking about two completely different digestive systems, and that of the reptile being much, much slower. The answer I'd like to see with that is, bloat is caused by excessive gas content. To my understanding, it happens when the volvulus becomes twisted and gas cannot escape. Do tortoises even have these organs/parts? I would assume anything with a digestive system produces some sort of gas....
emysemys said:
That would depend upon the reason for the bloat for the cow. The logic of stomach number does not necessarily play into it. There may be other factors. If bloat is occurring, I would start looking at the microbiome (bacterial populations of intestinal microflora). Population bloom and excessive gas production is likely if rapid increase in highly digestible and nutrient-rich feed occurs. Gradual/ramped introduction would likely give more time for adjustment of outputs by bacteria inhabiting the rumen. In a cow, that is.
I see no need from what I have seen to limit this in a tortoise.
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