A Simple Observation...your thoughts?

[diamondbp]

So after having most of my pardalis for a few months I've noticed a trend. The ones that came to me with noticable pyramiding are not growing nearly as fast as those that I bought before any pyramiding could begin. It's almost to the point of frustration because some of the smoother pardalis that started out smaller are already outgrowing the "older" pyramided ones despite them having identical care. Of course I know all tortoises grow at different rates but this is definitely a noticable trend.

Any thoughts?

 

[Yvonne G]

Seems to me that Tom talked about this once upon a time. Don't remember if it was about leopards or sulcatas, but he did say something about the ones started dry and slightly pyramided grew more slowly than the ones started hot/humid and smooth.

 

[Tom]

Yvonne is correct. One of the "side effects" of a healthy well hydrated tortoise is faster growth. Or I could say that one of the side effects of dehydration and an overly dry enclosure is slow growth, and growth in a proper enclosure with decent hydration is "normal".

On the bright side, most tortoises will begin to grow at a more "normal" rate after a year or two in better conditions. You won't see a difference in the first few months usually, but in time they will grow. I don't know if dry started ones will ever catch up to wet started ones. Lets talk about it again in about 10 years.

 

[Barista5261]

I have noticed the same thing. Both my sulcatas were started out very dry and on a poor diet. When I joined the forum, I started seeing growth progress pictures of members who had their sulcatas in closed chambers and fed them a super varied diet. It amazed me how big they grew so quickly. After building closed chambers for both my sulcatas, it was a good 2 months before I woke up one day and it was as if they literally grew overnight. Now one is growing wider, but weighs less than the smaller one

 

[Neal]

Yvonne is correct. One of the "side effects" of a healthy well hydrated tortoise is faster growth. Or I could say that one of the side effects of dehydration and an overly dry enclosure is slow growth, and growth in a proper enclosure with decent hydration is "normal".

On the bright side, most tortoises will begin to grow at a more "normal" rate after a year or two in better conditions. You won't see a difference in the first few months usually, but in time they will grow. I don't know if dry started ones will ever catch up to wet started ones. Lets talk about it again in about 10 years.

I can confirm this from my own observations. I have raised several in dry (but well hydrated mind you) set ups and they always grew slower than the ones that I am now raising with more humidity.

I have a very small group right now that spent the latter part of summer in an outdoor enclosure where it was dryer, and over the winter they were moved into an indoor closed chamber. The rate of growth has increased substantially.

Now, whether or not this has any impact on their health is another discussion. Whether the tortoises raised dry will catch up to a tortoise raised in a humid environment is yet another discussion. All that I can add on these points is that I have personally never seen any noticeable differences in health between the tortoises I raised in the ways described above, only that the specimens raised in humid conditions tend to be more active which may be a sign of greater health. Also, two of the largest leopard specimens I own were raised entirely in dry conditions. One male is approximately 13 inches which is pretty big for a male, the other is a female who is tip-toeing at around 18 inches and is still growing.

Those examples lead me to believe that raising a tortoise in dry conditions does not limit its growth potential. But I admit these examples are anecdotal at best.

 

[diamondbp]

Well it will be interesting to see how different the growth rates will end up long term.
I have one pardalis that was obviously kept to dry before I purchased her and she is now over a year old . In that time she has only gone from 1.8 ounces to 3.6 ounces and I'm so confused about why this is if it's not the early pyramiding. In the same time span I have another pardalis that came in freshhatched/smooth and went from 3.9 ounches to 13.9 ounches. I would consider the first pardalis mentioned to be on the EXTREMELY slow side of growth and the second pardalis a normal rate of growth. Both have fantastic appetites and they are actually kept seperate. I have 3 Christmas tree bins that I use for my pardalis. The 2 largest leopards are kept in one bin. The 3-6 largest in another. And the smallest 5 are kept in another. I really hope to see my pyramided ones take off with growth once spring rolls around and they get more natural grazing/sunshine time.