33yo Alligator Seized

[wellington]

I don’t think it’s crazy for the government to prevent most people from having alligators as pets. Weasels, yes, Alligators, no. You can’t just “punish people when they do bad”, if it was super easy to have alligators as pets they would be released into parks and lakes and golf courses incessantly once they got to big for the fish tank they bought for it. It already happens too much with illegal ones, I shudder to think what would happen if they were easily allowed. It’s not good for the alligators, the wild animals where they are released, the pets they eat, or the people who might get attacked. And you’d never find the dumper anyway.

I agree, some animals shouldn't be allowed.
We have had a few alligators released in Chicago and/or surrounding area because of them getting too big and the people didn't have the room and money to properly care for them.
What's wrong here, he did it all legally and they still took the animal after all those years of good care and no incidents.

 

[Len B]

I don’t think it’s crazy for the government to prevent most people from having alligators as pets. Weasels, yes, Alligators, no. You can’t just “punish people when they do bad”, if it was super easy to have alligators as pets they would be released into parks and lakes and golf courses incessantly once they got to big for the fish tank they bought for it. It already happens too much with illegal ones, I shudder to think what would happen if they were easily allowed. It’s not good for the alligators, the wild animals where they are released, the pets they eat, or the people who might get attacked. And you’d never find the dumper anyway.

Can I disagree on the gator part

 

[Tom]

I don’t think it’s crazy for the government to prevent most people from having alligators as pets. Weasels, yes, Alligators, no. You can’t just “punish people when they do bad”, if it was super easy to have alligators as pets they would be released into parks and lakes and golf courses incessantly once they got to big for the fish tank they bought for it. It already happens too much with illegal ones, I shudder to think what would happen if they were easily allowed. It’s not good for the alligators, the wild animals where they are released, the pets they eat, or the people who might get attacked. And you’d never find the dumper anyway.

Where do you draw that line? Who gets to draw that line? Why do they get to draw that line? Why do you want your government reps to tell ME that I can't have a pet that YOU think is unsuitable for me? Because someone else MIGHT do something wrong? Even if some people might abuse their freedom, you think that makes it okay to deny freedom to everyone else who did nothing wrong?

Suppose I'm an animal rights whacko and I don't think you should be exploiting a Russian tortoise for your own pleasure and enjoyment? Should I have the right, should our government have the right to tell you that you can't have it?

That is a terrifying slippery slope. So no alligators. What about Komodo dragons? No? What about water monitors then? Still too big? What about ackie monitors? Same genus as komodos... What about green iguanas? Those can harm people. Are those too big and scary for your liking? Some people don't like any reptiles. Should they be telling you and me what we can do with our lives? I don't think they should.

 

[SinLA]

You are 100% right these are difficult questions. But that’s one of the issues of living in society is that lines in the sand are drawn and everyone’s going to disagree on where they are - some people think they’re too far to the left or too far to the right but to have no lines at all sounds great in theory but not in reality. And people can fight to have laws changed that they don’t agree with. And some people fight their whole lives to have laws changed and do not succeed. I’d say it’s a major theme of American history and I’m sure other nations as well.

The fact is yes I am comfortable with having a line in the sand that recognizes “the vast majority of people cannot responsibly have an alligator as a pet”. And as with all laws, that means a number of people who would be “just fine” without those regulations are unfortunately limited For the benefit of the greater good. In some cases that does not mean they cannot have an alligator at all, it just means they have to go through extra hoops to have one. Or maybe they can’t have one at all because some localities say no . And yes you are also right that the people who create those hoops and hold those hoops, may or may not know more about alligators than *some* of the people who want to have them, but most of society AND most of the numb nuts who actually DO want to own alligators but also should not have them, are better off because of those hoops not allowing them vs otherwise. But yes it does mean some “good” peoples rights to own an alligator are infringed as a result, but fewer alligators being dumped in places that lead to innocent people or animals suffering.

And I personally think the line that is currently drawn in the sand about weasels (example) is terrible, but alligators fine. You can have a pet skunk or prairie dog in other states but not California. If it was something I felt incredibly passionate about I could lobby to try and have that changed. I for one am thrilled but we don’t allow pet stores for dogs/cats in California anymore, even though I’m also well aware that the puppy mills just find other ways but it makes it harder. Does that infringe on that “poor“ puppy mill owners rights? You betcha. Am I well aware that there are good honest breeders out there who have been swept up in this, yeah I am. Do I recognize that’s unfortunate for them, yep. But would I change it because some good breeders get pinched by it? No. That’s MY feeling about that line in the sand, and you have every right to feel that line in the sand is in the wrong spot and to try to get it changed, or that my idea about where that line in the sand should be is wrong.

And yes I’m well aware that we could substitute “alligator” for many things that are in dispute. Things that some countries do not allow at all, and in some countries some people take umbrage at suggesting they be limited. We can all argue about where those lines in the sand are, but I think the idea of having no lines at all is fantasy not reality, and overall one that infringes on more people in the end rather than fewer.

The beauty is, if you don’t like where a line in the sand is drawn, you can try to change it. You may or may not be successful, but you can certainly try.

 

[TammyJ]

I think each particular case should be looked at individually. In this case of Albert the alligator, both Albert and his owner were terribly wronged and extremely cruelly and contemptuously treated. Albert was abused and kidnapped and his owner was abused and his rights violated. I hope this gets really huge. The owner is not alone.

 

[wellington]

Stop with any political/government references. This thread will get closed on the next one!

 

[EppsDynasty]

@Tom ... I wont say the dreaded g word but Right F'ing On. When are we going to start seizing fat people? They are suffering! I have been on this planet for 45 years and this is my OPINION based on fact. Stupidity and ignorance (look up the definition of ignorance if you don't know it) used to be the minority, now it's the majority. At some point the suffering of those doing the doing has to be stopped, those that don't like the doing does not make them right. There is a great sticker that says "F" your feelings. We in society have stayed quite far to long, letting things that are just plain idiotic happen because of F.E.A.R. False Evidence Appearing Real. We are so afraid we'll lose our job, or position or be against the grain or be the minority so we stay quiet. Those of us that do stand up and speak are ostracized and treated as if we are lepers. If enough of us shed our fear and stand up the majority will again become the minority.
And 1 more thing .... If you have seen any video of them seizing it, they handle it without any care for the Alligator (who is blind and scared). Their own fears of Alligators dictate their behaviour and the 1 that suffers is the 1 they are supposedly there to help.
ANY animal we encounter I do EVERYTHING I can to put myself in the animals position. I am willing to be bitten, spit on or whatever the animal does in the depths of F.E.A.R.
(obviously I would not take the alligator bite)

 

[Tom]

@Tom ... I wont say the dreaded g word but Right F'ing On. When are we going to start seizing fat people? They are suffering! I have been on this planet for 45 years and this is my OPINION based on fact. Stupidity and ignorance (look up the definition of ignorance if you don't know it) used to be the minority, now it's the majority. At some point the suffering of those doing the doing has to be stopped, those that don't like the doing does not make them right. There is a great sticker that says "F" your feelings. We in society have stayed quite far to long, letting things that are just plain idiotic happen because of F.E.A.R. False Evidence Appearing Real. We are so afraid we'll lose our job, or position or be against the grain or be the minority so we stay quiet. Those of us that do stand up and speak are ostracized and treated as if we are lepers. If enough of us shed our fear and stand up the majority will again become the minority.

I agree with your assessment of the situation.

And 1 more thing .... If you have seen any video of them seizing it, they handle it without any care for the Alligator (who is blind and scared). Their own fears of Alligators dictate their behaviour and the 1 that suffers is the 1 they are supposedly there to help.

I did not see the video, but what I see daily from the government regarding animal care, legislation and enforcement is appalling, disgusting, absurd, infuriating, and ridiculous.

Here is an example: "They" sent out an inspector to decide whether or not to give me permission to pursue the art of falconry. I had already taken and passed a rigorous and very difficult written test, lined up a sponsor, filled out lots of paperwork, forms, notarized applications, and paid hundreds of dollars in fees for the privilege of asking their permission to do what I want to do, and then the send a lady out who had no idea what she was supposed to look at. She didn't know what the required equipment was or how to even how to pronounce some of it. Aylmari jesses... She had no idea what the building requirement s were for the mew. I had to show her the paper work from her own government organization and explain what everything was to her, using my own equipment as examples, and teach her, for the first time, what the equipment was and how it was to be used. She thanked me for the lesson and approved me for the license, but the experience was mind boggling and surreal. I could understand if they were to send a master falconer over to inspect everything and make sure this new apprentice was not making errors that could harm a raptor, but this lady literally did not know the first thing about falconry. She would have failed her own test miserably, yet this is the person that decides what I can and can't do?

It's the same thing with USDA, County Animal Control, and all the rest of them. They send these people out who have never laid hands on a monkey, elephant, rattlesnake or camel, to tell career professionals with decades of experience what they should be doing and how they should be doing it. We just have to play along and pay them their money to be allowed to pursue our trade. The system makes no sense.