Suddenly bad shell rot!

Like, practically overnight??

When my redfoot was around 1 year old she had a problem with shell rot that I managed to clear up. And her plastron had JUST started to look totally normal and healed over again...

She's 4 now and I just put her in a new 4'x8' enclosure in early August. All new fresh cypress mulch and everything and I spot clean frequently.

Today I take her out to weigh her for the month and check her over and there's like huge parts eaten away from her plastron! I've soaked her in diluted chlorhexidine and applied anti-fungal ointment and I'm going to call the vet tomorrow.

All I can figure is it's because she's been hiding more in her new viv than the old one (where she basically paced constantly) so her plastron is in contact with the substrate more. But I'm not sure what to do to prevent this if she's going to keep doing it. :\ The substrate is always going to be kind of moist since I have misters on at intervals to keep the humidity up. (It's hard to even get it over 70% and that's with 75% of the top covered.)

Should I cut back on the misters for a while even if it causes the overall humidity to drop? (I had just gotten to the point where her pyramiding wasn't as bad anymore either :T Too moist? Shell rot! Too dry? Pyramiding! How do you find the perfect spot in the middle?)

What are your temps?

Although they need a high humidity, the top layer of substrate needs to be dry for RF.

G-stars said:

What are your temps?

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Looks like only 80 :X That's too low isn't it? They were reading 85 earlier in the month but I guess the heat rope I'm using can't keep up with the ambient temp drops lately...

I have a Megray for heat/uvb but only in one spot. I'll need to see about installing some extra heat emitters.

I'm not sure how to best keep the substrate dry but also have high humidity. I've never been able to, not even with a closed chamber. Not to mention she'll just burrow down into the substrate and get to the wetter parts anyway, you know?

It could be a little higher but I don't think that's the cause of it. How are you meeting his uv light requirements? And calcium? I wonder if a lack of any of those can potentially be a factor?

Can you take a picture of your setup? It might help some of us figure out how to help find that happy medium. You mentioned closed chambers. You should never have a problem with high humidity levels in a closed setup so, a picture can help tons to figure out what's going on. The top of the substrate can be moist but should have the opportunity to dry out.

There's pics at my tumblr here: http://ivynajspyder.tumblr.com/post/94013372183/aaaah-its-finally-done-three-months-of-work-and (It isn't clear in the pics there but the top covers with the wire are also covered with plexiglass to keep in the heat/humidity in.)

For UV I'm using a Megaray. I have a Solarmeter that says it's still good and she basks pretty regularly.

She gets calcium dusted on her greens every other feeding and Repashy Superveggie the other times (She is fed dark leafy greens every day, fruit and veggies twice a week)

For now I am cutting back on the misting til things dry out. I'm thinking of putting a bubbler in a bowl of water to raise the humidity that way.

The misting systems is probably the problem. You are wetting the top. When the humidity needs to be brought back up or maintained, pour some warm water into the corners, dampening the underneath substrate while leaving the top dry.

But the tortoise just digs down into the damp substrate even when the top is dry... I think that is the problem here :T

I agree with Barb...and to me when she burrows into the wet, it's warm not cool like the misters...

Hm. I'm really not sure how to fix that then. Do I ditch the heat rope? I've added some heat emitters to get more heat from above but I'm not sure I'll be able to go without the heating rope under the substrate especially once it gets colder. What other heating options are there for such a large enclosure?

(There are dry/warm sections of the viv too. I try to have hides for every type of microclimate but she's picky)

Are the lights on top of your closed chamber, or inside?

On top for the UVB so there's a safe enough distance. Fluorescents and heat emitters are inside.

I have heat ropes in my closed chamber. You need to make sure they are " waterproof". I got mine from Big Apple. You attach them to hardware cloth. Put the heating ropes under the hardware cloth. I pour a pint under the substrate of each end ( you need to adjust to your size enclosure). The heat ropes, heat the water and send the humidity up. I also have CHE's and the temps are very carefully monitoredto avoid overheating or cold.
The left side if the enclosure is approx 95 and the right side is 80 and no heat cords. Just a CHE that is on a thermostat and holds at 80.

Yup that's exactly what I have too. Might have even gotten the idea from ya or someone else here, haha

Problem is I literally have to pour in gallons of water to get any humidity readings and then the mulch is soaked :T

Its not a closed chamber if there are holes on top for lights. That creates a chimney effect that draws your moist humid air up into the room. All of my closed chambers maintain high humidity with dry substrate. Dry on top I mean.

What are you using to measure humidity and where is the "receiver" located? I can measure 86% RH on ground level and 5" higher have the readings around 68% RH.

The enclosure looks too bright with MVB and two fluorescents. She may be digging/hiding to get away from the light. If those are T5HO fluorescents then its definitely too bright, even with one. One T8 should be used. Less likely but, She also may be digging sensing the heat cables, to get warm. My emys will dig down to lay on heat cables which I " try" to discourage.

How are you supposed to have live plants without bright lights though? o_o People are all 'live plants for humidity/cover/food' but you need some pretty decent lighting even for low light plants.

I'm using an Accurite Indoor/outdoor thing to measure temps and humidity. The receiver is located around the middle of the enclosure at tortoise level. It's usually at around 75%.

The hole for the lights is the exact size of the dome so there isn't any where for air to escape there. The plexiglass isn't a 100% perfect fit on the tops but I figured you'd WANT to have some ventilation to prevent mold and stuff.

Ugh, I spend nearly a grand building this thing :T So many people use tables even for red foots. Is there any way to still make it work? It's only 21" tall so with the substrate height there is no safe way to put the lights inside.

How would you even make a closed chamber this size but still be able to reach inside it? That was the problem I had with my 4'x4', I couldn't reach to the back corners to clean.

I made a tortoise table. To be honest, I got a little peeved when I read about "closed chambers" after making my table because it seemed more preferable for high humidity species. I'm actually glad I didn't, though. Trying to make a 6'x9' closed chamber would be insane and probably would have fallen through the floor being as heavy as it woulda been. Plus, there's no way I could fit in all the plants AND easily maintain it.

Okay so here's what you could do. Build a cheap PVC frame to go over your entire enclosure and cover it with plastic dropcloth. Essentially you'd be making a greenhouse over everything. It isn't a great insulator but it will hold in humidity a little better. You still have easy access and the frame is lightweight enough to move if needed. I usually cover my enclosure during winters and have it open during humid summers.