Males do make a difference in quality of hatchlings

[allegraf]

Here are two of bonitas babies from this year. She was exposed to better quality/color males than before. She previously produced babies that looked like her- little color. Last year was the first year we kept her babies to see if they will marble as fantastically as Bonita. Since the more marbled ones seem to have less color. So far we aren't seeing much marbling. This year the two that have hatched so far have exceeded all expectations. One has strong colors (especially for a Bonita baby), the other is quite spectacular. Here are the two from this year. I will try to round up some pic of the yearlong from last year so you can see the quality/color differences. These two will also be held back to see if anything develops on their shells. Enjoy!

Sorry they are a bit dirty and flaking, I didn't wash the gunk off of them very well after they hatched.

 

[Anyfoot]

Here are two of bonitas babies from this year. She was exposed to better quality/color males than before. She previously produced babies that looked like her- little color. Last year was the first year we kept her babies to see if they will marble as fantastically as Bonita. Since the more marbled ones seem to have less color. So far we aren't seeing much marbling. This year the two that have hatched so far have exceeded all expectations. One has strong colors (especially for a Bonita baby), the other is quite spectacular. Here are the two from this year. I will try to round up some pic of the yearlong from last year so you can see the quality/color differences. These two will also be held back to see if anything develops on their shells. Enjoy!

Sorry they are a bit dirty and flaking, I didn't wash the gunk off of them very well after they hatched.View attachment 163309View attachment 163310View attachment 163311View attachment 163312View attachment 163307

Stunning and perfectly formed. What temp were these incubated at?
Also. I hear rumours that female reds hold sperm for 2 to 5 yrs. Does this not prove otherwise? Or is it a case of the last male flushes out previous sperms?

 

[allegraf]

Incubated at 82-84F. No idea as to the answers to your other questions. Are they like dogs where multiple males can fertilize different eggs within a clutch? I think so. They do seem to retain sperm for a few years, does the retained sperm compete with the new within the same clutch? Or is is flushed with the new? We will see what the third baby for that clutch looks like. It was pipping this morning. We will see when it comes out.

 

[AmRoKo]

Always a pleasure seeing what treats for the eyes your tortoises produce! I love my babies I got from you (thought I do love all my animals babies) That squishy one has such a personality.
Well, when I say "squishy" I'm of course talking about his weird shaped shell, lol.

 

[cdmay]

Yep, a really nice male can make the difference.
Nice looking neonates. If they marble anything like their mother they will be super cool looking.

 

[naturalman91]

whoa. stunning as alway's

i would have thought males made a difference in the outcome genetic's and all i'm not a breeder so was it thought that females played the role for looks?

 

[allegraf]

Here is the third and last hatchling from that clutch. Looks similar to the first one. Still an overall improvement from last year. I'll try to get picks of the yearling tomorrow.

 

[Redstrike]

Interesting neck colors on the one that's not shy. From the pictures, it looks like that "dusting" you refer to rather than splotches of color.

Maybe I'm seeing things incorrectly but if that is the case, it's very intriguing! That's probably something I'd be exploring if I had a super herd like yours and some unique phenotypes popping out of it.

 

[allegraf]

Here are Bonita's yearlings. They are really dirty right now. Everyone had to come into to garage. You can still see the smaller amount of color of these vs. this years hatchlings. Marbling is small so far on those. I will say they are quite outgoing though for yearlings.

Here is mom-Bonita. None of them are happy to be inside. That is marbling with a little dirt. She has one of the most amazing marbled shells.

 

[Redstrike]

Big difference in 2015 vs. 2016 clutch colors from that female. I've never seen marbling like that before, it makes her quite cryptic in that mulch...

 

[allegraf]

Interesting neck colors on the one that's not shy. From the pictures, it looks like that "dusting" you refer to rather than splotches of color.

Maybe I'm seeing things incorrectly but if that is the case, it's very intriguing! That's probably something I'd be exploring if I had a super herd like yours and some unique phenotypes popping out of it.

The problem with the neck dusting of colors, I don't know which male is throwing the color! Similar problem with the yellow highlights on the reds. These are great dorky problems to have, guess I will have to keep breeding to figure it out. Actually this year, we are planning on dividing up the pen and trying to do "selective" breeding. Exposing certain females to specific males.

 

[Redstrike]

The problem with the neck dusting of colors, I don't know which male is throwing the color! Similar problem with the yellow highlights on the reds. These are great dorky problems to have, guess I will have to keep breeding to figure it out. Actually this year, we are planning on dividing up the pen and trying to do "selective" breeding. Exposing certain females to specific males.

It will be interesting to see the results, keep the pictures coming post-selective breeding.

 

[Kapidolo Farms]

Incubated at 82-84F. No idea as to the answers to your other questions. Are they like dogs where multiple males can fertilize different eggs within a clutch? I think so. They do seem to retain sperm for a few years, does the retained sperm compete with the new within the same clutch? Or is is flushed with the new? We will see what the third baby for that clutch looks like. It was pipping this morning. We will see when it comes out.

They don't retain sperm, they retain fertilized ova, tortoises do not seem to have a sperm competition scenario for male fitness as do many other animals. Could be sperm fitness is tested based on how long the fertilized ova keep.

 

[allegraf]

They don't retain sperm, they retain fertilized ova, tortoises do not seem to have a sperm competition scenario for male fitness as do many other animals. Could be sperm fitness is tested based on how long the fertilized ova keep.

Thanks for the info, Will. That makes more sense that the sperm being retained and kept viable over the years. As a non-scientist, I know nothing.

 

[cdmay]

Thanks for the info, Will. That makes more sense that the sperm being retained and kept viable over the years. As a non-scientist, I know nothing.

Ditto...most reports say the females retain sperm. Your explaination makes more sense.

 

[Kapidolo Farms]

Ditto...most reports say the females retain sperm. Your explaination makes more sense.

Someone, a real deal scientists challenged the notion of retained sperm, and sorted out it is retain fertilized ova. If not for the occasional sacrificed brain cell to a beer I woulda' remembered who published that. Darn beer.

 

[Redstrike]

Someone, a real deal scientists challenged the notion of retained sperm, and sorted out it is retain fertilized ova. If not for the occasional sacrificed brain cell to a beer I woulda' remembered who published that. Darn beer.

If you recall the publication at any point, let us know. I'd be very interested in that article.

 

[Kapidolo Farms]

http://download.bioon.com.cn/view/u...4_bcdf90c3c8b5cfea20a3aK9LmH7UxddK.attach.pdf

Says it is stored sperm for water turtles.

http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1002/aja.1001830303/abstract

Says it is stored sperm for tortoises.

Probably ought to stop drinking beer. I'm pretty sure I read to opposite, I'll look more.

 

[allegraf]

Darn beer.

Blasphemy!

 

[Redstrike]

http://download.bioon.com.cn/view/u...4_bcdf90c3c8b5cfea20a3aK9LmH7UxddK.attach.pdf

Says it is stored sperm for water turtles.

http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1002/aja.1001830303/abstract

Says it is stored sperm for tortoises.

Probably ought to stop drinking beer. I'm pretty sure I read to opposite, I'll look more.

...stop drinking beer!?!? I thought you were a biologist?!?

I'd argue it's one of the things biologists do best... Soldier on man for the sake of science!

Also, thanks for the papers!