Substrate Heat

[Tom]

In light of several recent discussions, I'm looking to build a big closed chamber, kind of like an incubator, and I need to figure out a good way to heat it. I'd like to avoid bulbs and CHEs and I'm looking at substrate heat on a thermostat to do it instead. I've heard mention of "heat cables". Anyone using a good reliable brand? Do they produce enough heat to warm a closed enclosure up into the 90's? Heat mats and human heating pads will not work. I really want to avoid overhead desiccation if possible.

 

[Yvonne G]

Mylar heat strips mfg'd to heat seedling trays in a green house. I bought two for around $20 apiece at Orchard's.

 

[Tom]

Can they be buried in wet substrate inside the enclosure?

 

[PeanutbuttER]

I'm using a hydor hydrokable which is working out well for me. It can be used for reptiles or aquariums so it's 100% waterproof which in my mind is a must for any substrate heater. So far I've been very happy with it.

 

[coreyc]

Big apple herps sells a heat tape that's water proof. There's a member that's using it. I forget how it is I think it was a mod.I plan on getting some when they get it in stock

 

[Tom]

I'm using a hydor hydrokable which is working out well for me. It can be used for reptiles or aquariums so it's 100% waterproof which in my mind is a must for any substrate heater. So far I've been very happy with it.

Thanks PB. Is it big enough to heat a 3x5' tub to 95?

I'll do a search for it and check it out.

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Big apple herps sells a heat tape that's water proof. There's a member that's using it. I forget how it is I think it was a mod.I plan on getting some when they get it in stock

The old style heat tape wouldn't work for something this large. Is the new stuff bigger and better?

 

[coreyc]

I'm using a hydor hydrokable which is working out well for me. It can be used for reptiles or aquariums so it's 100% waterproof which in my mind is a must for any substrate heater. So far I've been very happy with it.

Thanks PB. Is it big enough to heat a 3x5' tub to 95?

I'll do a search for it and check it out.

---

Big apple herps sells a heat tape that's water proof. There's a member that's using it. I forget how it is I think it was a mod.I plan on getting some when they get it in stock

The old style heat tape wouldn't work for something this large. Is the new stuff bigger and better?

---

Not heat sorry I meant heat rope

 

[PeanutbuttER]

Madkins is the one using the heat rope from big apple herp. It's also waterproof if I remember correctly.

I found the Hydrokable in the local classifieds which is why I got it. Otherwise I'd have bought the other one per Mark's recommendation. However, I'm quite quite happy with the hydrokable and would buy it again.

Hydrokable comes in like 4 different sizes. One of the sizes should be able to cover that area, but worse case scenario you might need to use two. With two I guess you could even set up a heat gradient if you really wanted it...

Just checked and looks like the biggest is 32.8 ft. You'd need 2 I think, one coming in from each side.

 

[Balboa]

The Hydrokable looks promising to me as well. Its one of the few listed for submerged use.

I'm beginning to think cable alone won't do it though Tom.

Something I'm considering might be worth thinking about. Essentially, I'm planning on forced recirculation of enclosure air through a warm mist humidifier, and including a "fresh air" feed with a control flap to set the mix to obtain correct humididty levels. The super heating of the humidifier goes a long ways towards heating the enclosure.

 

[zzzdanz]

Radiant heat flooring in an enclosed enclosure would easily get you the temps you're looking for.I have it in my bathrooms and they get warm.Mine are heated with water but they sell electric also.

 

[Yvonne G]

Can they be buried in wet substrate inside the enclosure?

The instructions tell you not to put dirt on them. However, I have mine UNDER the plastic tub my baby box turtles are in. It provides lots of heat under the substrate. I also have one in my baby leopard tortoise's table, but I don't put any substrate on it. Its bare. Before I had to remove them because of ants, they would sit on it at night.

 

[Tom]

If me or Balboa or somebody else get this going and it works well, someone is going to need to invent something and patent it.

 

[Madkins007]

If you look at the old Tortoise Library (https://sites.google.com/site/tortoiselibrary/the-work-shop/humidity) and go about 2/3rds down, you'll see my concept art for 'the Rainforest-enizer'. The idea was pretty simple but I don't know how it would work in real life but it should be great!

1. Big plastic tub with lid, partly filled with water
2. Bubbler, misting vaporizer, ultrasonic humidifier in the tub creating a mist in the tub
3. Space heater with metal ductwork to direct air into the tub lid
4. Ducting to direct heated, humidified air into the habitat
5. Use wicking materials hanging into the water to make baffles to slow airflow and increase humidity

A different version would eliminate the tub and replace it with a big pump sprayer.
1. Rig some duct work from a space heater to a side wall of the habitat
2. Rig up a valve in the tubing of the pump sprayer that would come on when the heater comes on. Right now, this is sort of a 'miracle circuit' insofar as I am not sure how you would do it. I know you could do it, just not sure how off hand.
3. Mount the spray tip of the sprayer in the duct so it sprays the finest mist possible into the warm air stream.
4. Pump the sprayer up nice and hard and lock the trigger down.

Or you can swap out most other kinds of humidifiers in the above design as long as you can route the output to the duct and rig them to run in sync with the heater.




I do use the heating cable- it hits about 90F on its own, but does not heat the either space to that level for me, although in your warmer climate it might. It can get good and wet without problems.

 

[Balboa]

I've thought about the rainforest-enizer, and different permutations many times. I think mostly I just love the name. I'm kinda hooked on that stupid cartoon my kids watch, Phineas and Ferb, and just love the character of Doctor Doofenschmirtz, and this totally makes me think of him.

"Tremble before the awesome eeeeeeevil of my Rainforest-enizer, Perry the Platypus!!! .... wait wait... we haven't finished the backstory..."

There could be many ways of accomplishing the effect, bubbling the air through hot water, hot water sprinklers in the tub, and on and on.

Of course I could just pick up an HVAC humidifier unit for central heating in a house, but what's the fun of that?

 

[Tom]

One of my other big things is trying to do these things with energy efficiency in mind. I had a small space heater on a thermostat on my big 4x8' water monitor enclosure. It was not cheap to operate.

This is a big reason why I'm moving toward in ground housing with some of my animals. I can do it with a lot less electricity.

I'm hoping to find a cheaper way to heat this giant "incubation chamber". I might try burying a Kane heat mat. It says not to as there is a fire risk, but I've been putting large tubs of water on them for many years with no problems. If its buried in wet substrate, I don't see how it could start a fire.

 

[onarock]

I've thought about the rainforest-enizer, and different permutations many times. I think mostly I just love the name. I'm kinda hooked on that stupid cartoon my kids watch, Phineas and Ferb, and just love the character of Doctor Doofenschmirtz, and this totally makes me think of him.

"Tremble before the awesome eeeeeeevil of my Rainforest-enizer, Perry the Platypus!!! .... wait wait... we haven't finished the backstory..."

There could be many ways of accomplishing the effect, bubbling the air through hot water, hot water sprinklers in the tub, and on and on.

Of course I could just pick up an HVAC humidifier unit for central heating in a house, but what's the fun of that?

My thoughts exactly. I am a Vantage programmer (lighting and 3rd party integration) and thought it would be cool to set up one of their 3rd party automation controllers with the built in astronomical time clock, but again, what fun is that.

 

[Millerlite]

why not just use a big heat mat, something like this Heatmat, i mean it might get the job done, only thing is heat mats and stuff, have a big gradient if its colder or hotter in the room of the enclosure.

 

[John]

the radiant floor heat is where im going, along with a steam generator type humidifier.but this is an expensive set up.of course its my trade so i can get the components for free.

 

[Madkins007]

I thought I invented the term "Rainforest-enizer"? I have not seen the cartoon you are talking about. Dang. Another great invention someone already made.

OK, this may be a MASSIVELY stupid idea, but what about basically building a tort habitat on top of a tropical fish tank? Build your 'Tortubator' (hmmm, dorky, needs a better name but I am already using Tortarium for MY thing) with a water-tight bottom and a 'false bottom' that is permeable* above it. Fill the bottom with water and warm it with a couple big aquarium heaters so the heat and humidity rise up through the habitat. Add a filling port, insulate the bottom and sides so the heat moves up, and it SHOULD cost fairly little to keep the large volume of water heated once it gets to the target temp.

(* I am thinking about something like a couple layers of fiberglass screen held tightly in a framework, or a plastic panel with many screen-covered holes)

 

[Balboa]

Well technically I think I had the suffix wrong, and in Doofenschmirtz's case it would be a Rainforest-enator... I think everything he makes is -ators, I dunno, I haven't seen it that often, I just know I think the character is hilarious when I do. I'm fairly certain he's never made a Rainforest-enizer on the show, it just reminds me of him

I had originally planned on building Rocky's enclosure on top of a fish tank. I had sourced a 230 gallon fish tank and the enclosure was going to be its lid. Not only would the warm air and lights help heat the enclosure from below, but the fish tank makes a great humidifier and I would duct that air up into the enclosure. The wife didn't care for the idea though, as the tort would've been above good viewing/maintenance level, and the aquarium too low for good viewing level. I even thought about making a way to make the tort enclosure raise and lower to allow better maintenance with them closer together, but that added too much complexity and I was in a hurry.

I still think it makes alot of sense though.

Not sure about permeable layers though, I don't have enough experience with that stuff. Seems like it should work, would hate to see the results if it failed.