Substrate for hermanns tortoise

[Matt j Harris]

Hi all I was wondering if forest floor bedding would be suitable for my hermanns tortoise? If not is there any other substrate which will add moisture I don't really want the sand and soil mix many thanks

 

[Yvonne G]

I don't see why not. I use Forest Floor when I can't find orchid bark.

 

[Tom]

I like coco coir for baby Testudo, and I prefer fine grade orchid bark for older, larger Testudo. You can find huge bags of the fine grade orchid bark at garden centers for about $6.

Cypress mulch would be a distant third choice for me.

I think you are right to avoid any kind of sand/soil mixture. Good call.

 

[Matt j Harris]

Thank you for your help I've ordered forest floor will I need to wet it if so how wet does it need to be?

 

[Tom]

Thank you for your help I've ordered forest floor will I need to wet it if so how wet does it need to be?

Just damp. Not wet. Every enclosure is different, so you will have to do some trial and error to see how much water you've got to dump in and how often.

 

[Yvonne G]

FYI to anyone interested - "Forest Floor" is a product put out by Zoo Med. It contains cypress mulch, and the pieces in the bag are much smaller than when you buy cypress mulch in bulk. It is a good substrate.

 

[FLGirl41]

Does orchid bark have less odor than cypress mulch? I find the latter to smell pretty strong...

 

[Matt j Harris]

 

[Matt j Harris]

Just got the forest floor cypress mulch it feels moist and he seems more active will he feel better and prefer this to aspen?

 

[juli11]

That's not the best substrate for young tortoises.. They can't grave themself in the ground and this substrate don't save the wetness what extremely important for young tortoises!

 

[Tom]

Does orchid bark have less odor than cypress mulch? I find the latter to smell pretty strong...

Cypress mulch comes from the swamps, and it smells like the swamps. I've had to rinse/wash it before use which is very time consuming and wastes a lot of water. Its not the worse substrate someone could use, but not my favorite.

Orchid bark does have a bit of a rather pleasant "earthy" smell when you first dump it into the enclosure and are moving it around, but any smell disappears quickly.

 

[Yvonne G]

That's not the best substrate for young tortoises.. They can't grave themself in the ground and this substrate don't save the wetness what extremely important for young tortoises!

I disagree. Cypress mulch is a good substrate and you CAN moisten it and keep it moistened. I've never had any problems with it and my babies have all been able to dig down into it in their hides. The problem I've had with it lately is the pieces are too big, but from the picture above, it looks like your's is just fine.

 

[Matt j Harris]

Mine doesn't have any smell and my tortoise seems to love it he's so much more active and I will moisten it as required I'll also see if he can burrow at night

 

[HermanniChris]

Matt,

Can I ask why you do not want to use the soil/sand mix when it is the more natural choice? There are quite a few issues with some of the points being directed towards Hermann's tortoises in general and this is one of the reasons why I created the care sheet at the top of this forum. Straight mulch of any kind or straight coco coir is not suitable for long term use when it comes to the T. hermanni species complex as babies. Sure, some have had success doing this I would imagine but it is simply not natural at all. These animals derive from sand/soil, loamy areas where they can dig to achieve desired moisture levels. Depriving them of this is not advisable. If you are someone who is scared to use sand, then an organic potting mix/soil mixed with mulch would do very well for the animal. We favor Nature's Care organic potting mix and shredded hardwood mulch. Hermann's tortoises need to be able to burrow in a moist, not wet, and deep substrate while young. They do not normally do well in a closed in enclosure since this species is highly susceptible to skin nodules and fungi so allowing the moist and easily excavated substrate enables them to achieve the necessary moisture but also enables them to escape it when they need to. Coco coir by itself has been found lodged in the nasal cavity of baby Hermann's tortoises which had necropsies done after they perished and some proved to have an alarming amount of it stuck in there. This is why when we use it, we only use it as part of the substrate. I'm just offering this info so that you don't lose your little guy down the road. The problem is that these things usually happen slowly and by the time you realize something may be wrong with him, it's too late.

Take this into consideration is all I'm saying.
The following photos were taken just 2 days ago of a 2.5 year old pair raised indoors until this past summer on organic potting mix, sand and mulch in an open top rubbermaid container. Just to give you an idea. These animals are perfectly smooth, robust and handled their own beautifully outdoors in the adult enclosure this summer.


Chris

 

[Matt j Harris]

Cheers for the info and the reason was after a fair bit of research on line the soil/sand combo seemed to have more negative responses to it mainly about the sand grit getting in there eyes all this info is new to me my parents have had a tortoise that's been in my mums family about 60+ years and uvb bulbs and different substrates weren't heard of and her shell is in great condition and has always been in great health but getting back to mine I went with what the majority of people recommend on websites forums etc

 

[HermanniChris]

You'll find a lot of people are scared and that's totally fine because things can and do happen. The UVB thing is a whole new topic and in fact, when I was out in West Virginia a few weeks back on a trip for the TSA, I met a very knowledgable biologist who has been doing a UVB experiment for years with these animals. Turns out there may be a very new way of how care sheets will be written for certain species in the future...and some lighting companies may start losing business...

Find what works for you and it's great that you're doing so much research. We always try to go as natural as possible here but let's face it, none of us can actually recreate nature. The reason I jumped in here is because of all the species we breed here, it's Hermann's tortoises that have been a major focus and a massive experience for us for over 2 decades. I can't tell you how many emails I receive EVERY WEEK about how people lose their babies. It's always tied to substrate or lack of sufficient moisture.

If you ever need any guidance feel free to contact me directly through my Hermann's site: hermannihaven.com

We're always learning new and exciting things.

 

[Matt j Harris]

Many thanks Chris I appreciate all info and help and I've been on your website and YouTube and it's helped loads all the best mate

 

[TurtleBug]

The UVB thing is a whole new topic and in fact, when I was out in West Virginia a few weeks back on a trip for the TSA, I met a very knowledgable biologist who has been doing a UVB experiment for years with these animals. Turns out there may be a very new way of how care sheets will be written for certain species in the future...and some lighting companies may start losing business...

Can you share any details?