Star ID

[kimber_lee_314]

Is this an Indian Star or Sri Lankan Star (or something else.)? Sorry for the blurry pics.

 

[egyptiandan]

No clue as those pictures are a wee bit small

Danny

 

[kimber_lee_314]

Ugh ... camera issues ... I'll be back.

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Let's try these:

 

[samstar]

I wish I could tell but it looks Indian

 

[kimber_lee_314]

It looks so different from my other Indian Star ...

 

[samstar]

I maybe wrong

 

[egyptiandan]

With a Star that size it's impossible to tell where it came from. You have to see parent pictures to even have a clue.

Danny

 

[kimber_lee_314]

Do you think it's safe to put him in with my other Indian Stars?

 

[egyptiandan]

Yes of course it is as even if it is Sri Lankan they are the same species. They did DNA work and they are the same species and not different enough to be subspecies.

Danny

 

[kimber_lee_314]

My other ones look like this - very different. How can they look so different?

 

[egyptiandan]

They look the same to me

Danny

 

[elegans]

No it is not safe. Unless you know the source of the stars you must assume that they are WC which leads to so many bad things that I will not even bother to go into right now. As far as the DNA stuff RE Sri Lankans vs Indians I have heard the same thing. But I am not sure what "markers" they were looking for. These animals are as different as any two other species that I have ever worked with. Night and day different! Danny may be a little out of the loop here, unless he has worked with both for as long as I have. In which case I would love to have a conversation about why they are in fact so very different. I am not sure if B. Z. ever worked with Indians but I am sure that you would get the same response from him. They are in fact remarkably different animals, though at the size that you show the tortoise it is impossible to even guess where it is from? Best thing to do is ask the seller, if they did not produce it (which I assume they did not) ask them to tell you where they bought it. Which they will not in most cases. You will most likely be left with the most probable outcome of yet one more "laundered" star tortoise that is from either India or Pakistan. Please keep it in quarantine until you are sure that is is OK. Best wishes Douglas

 

[egyptiandan]

But you are only talking temperment and hardiness Douglas which does not a subspecies or species make. Those attributes are determined by enviroment. Maybe in 100,000 years they will be different subspecies.
I've kept Sri Lankan stars and friends kept Indian stars. I didn't find my Sri Lankans any hardier than friends Indian stars. They were just as touchy as any other star that I had heard of. Yes they were both CB.

Danny

 

[kimber_lee_314]

Okay - here is a pic of them together.

 

[Starry night]

Kimberlee. I have said it more than 100 times before on here and I will say it 100 more until people learn it. Quarantine any new tortoises for a MINIMUM of 6 months before introducing to tortoises that you have now. I have only been keeping stars for about 2 years now and let me tell you I have had nothing more that bad luck and hell to pay. It seems that there are many wild caught stars being sold in the U.S. and most of them will die. I hope to keep Sri Lankan stars for the rest of my life and begin studying them every way possible. Everyday I'm speaking to guys like Doug, Bill Z., and many other breeders to learn more and more about these animals. I can tell you that the more I learn, the more I learn that I don't know. I still know nothing about breeding and I'm picking up several books about tortoises in general that my vet and someone else has mentioned as must reads for me. I want to learn about selective breeding and hopefully someday breed some of the most beautiful Sri Lankans, but I doubt that will happen seeing my luck so far with getting all sick torotises. I only have two tortoises as of now that are extremely high color and look wonderful, I just have to get rid of these damn parasites and my vet thinks we may never fully rid them of the trichomonas and amoeba. I love star tortoises , but something just draws me to the Sri Lankans more than any of the other species. If they are different from the Indian, I have no clue but many gurus say they are so I will go with that. Everyone on this board from the U.S. needs to heed to this advice: Buy stars from only a few select breeders. Bill Z (should be having babies soon), Doug, Janie, and maybe one or two others I have not mentioned. Stay far, far, far away from JWI.

 

[kimber_lee_314]

Don't worry - I never put them together (except for this quick photo.) I'm just curious why they look so different.

 

[samstar]

Kimberlee. I have said it more than 100 times before on here and I will say it 100 more until people learn it. Quarantine any new tortoises for a MINIMUM of 6 months before introducing to tortoises that you have now. I have only been keeping stars for about 2 years now and let me tell you I have had nothing more that bad luck and hell to pay. It seems that there are many wild caught stars being sold in the U.S. and most of them will die. I hope to keep Sri Lankan stars for the rest of my life and begin studying them every way possible. Everyday I'm speaking to guys like Doug, Bill Z., and many other breeders to learn more and more about these animals. I can tell you that the more I learn, the more I learn that I don't know. I still know nothing about breeding and I'm picking up several books about tortoises in general that my vet and someone else has mentioned as must reads for me. I want to learn about selective breeding and hopefully someday breed some of the most beautiful Sri Lankans, but I doubt that will happen seeing my luck so far with getting all sick torotises. I only have two tortoises as of now that are extremely high color and look wonderful, I just have to get rid of these damn parasites and my vet thinks we may never fully rid them of the trichomonas and amoeba. I love star tortoises , but something just draws me to the Sri Lankans more than any of the other species. If they are different from the Indian, I have no clue but many gurus say they are so I will go with that. Everyone on this board from the U.S. needs to heed to this advice: Buy stars from only a few select breeders. Bill Z (should be having babies soon), Doug, Janie, and maybe one or two others I have not mentioned. Stay far, far, far away from JWI.

and from Marcus Langford: www.startortoiseuk.co.uk

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No it is not safe. Unless you know the source of the stars you must assume that they are WC which leads to so many bad things that I will not even bother to go into right now. As far as the DNA stuff RE Sri Lankans vs Indians I have heard the same thing. But I am not sure what "markers" they were looking for. These animals are as different as any two other species that I have ever worked with. Night and day different! Danny may be a little out of the loop here, unless he has worked with both for as long as I have. In which case I would love to have a conversation about why they are in fact so very different. I am not sure if B. Z. ever worked with Indians but I am sure that you would get the same response from him. They are in fact remarkably different animals, though at the size that you show the tortoise it is impossible to even guess where it is from? Best thing to do is ask the seller, if they did not produce it (which I assume they did not) ask them to tell you where they bought it. Which they will not in most cases. You will most likely be left with the most probable outcome of yet one more "laundered" star tortoise that is from either India or Pakistan. Please keep it in quarantine until you are sure that is is OK. Best wishes Douglas

Thanks for the input. I got a long way to learn.

 

[elegans]

This is in reply to Danny. There are far more differences than the tow that you proposed. They are radically different in size and and number of eggs in a clutch. Again I would not say that they are a different species at all. However the whole concept of what a species is has been changing quite a bit over the last 3 decades that I have been following taxonomists. DNA is certainly a interesting tool, but very few species have had a full DNA panel done. It is still expensive and time consuming, though much less so now than it used to be. I would suggest that anyone who has kept them both for a long period of time would tell you that they are actually quite different. Best wishes to all. Douglas

 

[egyptiandan]

Well clutch size is usually correlated to the size of the female. Indian star females can get to 10 inches and Sri Lankans to 15 inches. Do you have any female Sri Lankans that are 12 inches or over? Have you ever seen a Sri Lankan over 12 inches?

Danny

 

[elegans]

Yes, I do have females over 12 and over 13 inches. I have yet to see a female Indian over 8". My largest female Sri laid a clutch of 11 (her single clutch record) 2 years ago. She also multi clutched that year, as she does every year.

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As a side note I know of no one personally that has had more than 5 eggs in an Indian clutch. Not that, that by itself means much. Thank God it is spring! Douglas