Scute Damage

[bluetortoise]

Friend's greek tortoise lost a piece of scute by injury few months ago, he took care of the wound with antiseptic, and gave her alot of water, dandelion and plaintain with cuttle bone as powder.

By now the wound seems healed well. The black pattern is already visible.

Do they actually grow back?

What if the scutes just get loose (so loose that there is blood beneath them) by injury but haven't fall off?

Is it still a big problem if the tortoise is actually still doing fine? (Eating alot, sleeps regularly, and even grows since it sheds skin bit by bit)

 

[Yvonne G]

Think of it as if it were a fingernail, with the exception that underneath is bone instead of flesh like on your finger. If the scute falls off, the bone underneath dies. Over the years new keratin (scute) and bone grow UNDER the dead bone and eventually the piece of dead bone flakes off, leaving the beautiful, new scute showing.

This is a very normal happening and usually the tortoise doesn't get sick and die from it.

 

[bluetortoise]

Think of it as if it were a fingernail, with the exception that underneath is bone instead of flesh like on your finger. If the scute falls off, the bone underneath dies. Over the years new keratin (scute) and bone grow UNDER the dead bone and eventually the piece of dead bone flakes off, leaving the beautiful, new scute showing.

This is a very normal happening and usually the tortoise doesn't get sick and die from it.

As mentioned above, the tortoise lost one scute three months ago, that place got healed now, but there are acutally more scutes which have gotten loose by the injury.

Three days ago they have gotten looser and the same situation happens again, except that the scutes haven't really fallen off, they are just loose and there is a little blood leaking out unterneath them, which has stopped now.
We have applied antiseptic.
But we are worried if this is all what we can do, if we should remove those loose scutes, but we don't want the tortoise to bleed to much from this.
And we are worried if the tortoise will regenerate properly during winter.

But the tortoise is still doing fine right now. Drinks, eats, sleeps.

 

[Yvonne G]

Don't pick at it. Just leave it alone. You can squirt some betadine or chlorhexedine under the scutes to keep them clean.

 

[biochemnerd808]

Yes, don't pick at it. Be careful with the betadine (iodine) solution - it is great stuff for preventing infection, but you may need to dilute it. Don't overdose on it... that can cause harm, and may dry the healing area out so much that it slows down the healing.

Don't pick at it. Just leave it alone. You can squirt some betadine or chlorhexedine under the scutes to keep them clean.

 

[bluetortoise]

Okay, got it, thanks for your answers!

 

[bluetortoise]

Any ideas how we could help her to regenerate over winter?

She usually doesn't touch cuttle bone, we don't know a good way to get rid of the smell, but we force her to eat it by grinding it into powder and mix it with greens.

But now she suddenly started to hibernate, although she hasn't do is last year, but since she is still in the room, I guess the room won't be too cold, cos there is still a human living there.

But if she really falls asleep, we won't have a chance to feed her, therefore no cuttle bone....

 

[biochemnerd808]

In such a fragile health state I wouldn't LET her hibernate... I'd be afraid she never would wake up.

You can prevent hibernation by making sure she gets a good 14 hrs of UVB in her enclosure (I replace my UVB bulbs at the end of September, so it's nice and "fresh"). Every morning you can get her out of hiding, place her under the heat bulb, possibly into a nice warm bath. That will wake her. Feed her some greens, and if she goes back to hide, you can fetch her again in the afternoon and place her under the lamps. I don't hibernate my torts (yet), and that was what I was told to do, and it works like a charm. Make sure the "warm" end of her enclosure is around 95 degrees Fahrenheit (32 degrees C), and the cold end is around 72F, (21C).

How did the tort get its injury?

Any ideas how we could help her to regenerate over winter?

She usually doesn't touch cuttle bone, we don't know a good way to get rid of the smell, but we force her to eat it by grinding it into powder and mix it with greens.

But now she suddenly started to hibernate, although she hasn't do is last year, but since she is still in the room, I guess the room won't be too cold, cos there is still a human living there.

But if she really falls asleep, we won't have a chance to feed her, therefore no cuttle bone....

 

[bluetortoise]

How did the tort get its injury?

She got stepped on slightly by my friend's roommate at end of july as the roommate came into my friend's room to talk with him.
And the tortoise was crawling on the floor at that time.

My friend had her for two years now and he always took good care of her. And she got so familiar with him and other human so that she likes to follow them around.
The doorway is blocked though, so the tortoise can never walk out of his room.
My friend always checks around/below him before he moves, but other people might forget it, so when the roommate moved, the tortoise got stepped or kicked, I'm not sure either what happened.

And from that, she lost one scute. Which is almost healed pretty well after exact 3 months (near end of october). But there are few other scutes which became loose but haven't fallen off. Few days ago they became looser and there was some blood coming out from beneath, which has stopped by now, but we are afraid to handle her so the wound

Everything would be fine if the tortoise was not hurt, so this is a very new situation, and it made us very nervous, cos we know a visit to the vet is expensive and we try our best to not spend money on this, we can't really afford it anyway, we're students.


So maybe photos will help:

This is when the wound was discovered (25th Jul).



During healing:



And now:



The wound in the front is doing quite well. But those back scutes which are loose start making problems.
But the tortoise is energetic as always.

 

[biochemnerd808]

Aww, poor sweetie! I'm glad that the front scute is healing so well.

The good news is that tortoises CAN survive with a shell that has even worse damage - I've seen it in 2 torts that my friend rescued (not both together) that had been badly attacked by a dog (which was just trying to play). One of them has NO scutes left, it's bare bone. The incident happened 3 years ago, and the tort is now part of an educational exhibition, and lives a very normal life.
The key is to prevent infection - make sure you soak him, and then you can gently drizzle some betadine solution (diluted 2:1) into the crack. Only do this once or twice, as it dries out the tissue in a manner that while desinfecting, it can also slow down the healing process. Alternatively, you could gently apply triple antibiotic ointment (or neosporin) into the cracks about 2x per day for several days with a cuetip.

I wonder if maybe there is a reptile rescue organization near you, or maybe a herpetology professor at your college, that could help you treat this? When I rescued a little hurt, badly malnourished tort this summer, the founder of our local rescue society (International Reptile Rescue) was amazing, she trimmed his beak, advised me how to treat the dog bite wound, kept an eye on the stump left of his leg, and encouraged and advised me every step of the way.

Good luck! He's a handsome little guy, even with a missing scute!

How did the tort get its injury?

She got stepped on slightly by my friend's roommate at end of july as the roommate came into my friend's room to talk with him.
And the tortoise was crawling on the floor at that time.

My friend had her for two years now and he always took good care of her. And she got so familiar with him and other human so that she likes to follow them around.
The doorway is blocked though, so the tortoise can never walk out of his room.
My friend always checks around/below him before he moves, but other people might forget it, so when the roommate moved, the tortoise got stepped or kicked, I'm not sure either what happened.

And from that, she lost one scute. Which is almost healed pretty well after exact 3 months (near end of october). But there are few other scutes which became loose but haven't fallen off. Few days ago they became looser and there was some blood coming out from beneath, which has stopped by now, but we are afraid to handle her so the wound

Everything would be fine if the tortoise was not hurt, so this is a very new situation, and it made us very nervous, cos we know a visit to the vet is expensive and we try our best to not spend money on this, we can't really afford it anyway, we're students.


So maybe photos will help:

This is when the wound was discovered (25th Jul).



During healing:



And now:



The wound in the front is doing quite well. But those back scutes which are loose start making problems.
But the tortoise is energetic as always.

 

[bluetortoise]

Aww, poor sweetie! I'm glad that the front scute is healing so well.

The good news is that tortoises CAN survive with a shell that has even worse damage - I've seen it in 2 torts that my friend rescued (not both together) that had been badly attacked by a dog (which was just trying to play). One of them has NO scutes left, it's bare bone. The incident happened 3 years ago, and the tort is now part of an educational exhibition, and lives a very normal life.
The key is to prevent infection - make sure you soak him, and then you can gently drizzle some betadine solution (diluted 2:1) into the crack. Only do this once or twice, as it dries out the tissue in a manner that while desinfecting, it can also slow down the healing process. Alternatively, you could gently apply triple antibiotic ointment (or neosporin) into the cracks about 2x per day for several days with a cuetip.

I wonder if maybe there is a reptile rescue organization near you, or maybe a herpetology professor at your college, that could help you treat this? When I rescued a little hurt, badly malnourished tort this summer, the founder of our local rescue society (International Reptile Rescue) was amazing, she trimmed his beak, advised me how to treat the dog bite wound, kept an eye on the stump left of his leg, and encouraged and advised me every step of the way.

Good luck! He's a handsome little guy, even with a missing scute!

Thanks for the advises!
I think the tortoise is a female by the way .

Oh yeah, another thing, the tortoise is a Testudo Hermanni, so I was wondering if I actually came to the wrong subforum?
Ain't Testudo Hermannis called "greek tortoise"? Can anyone explain me the difference between Hermann Tortoise and Greek Tortoise?

 

[Yvonne G]

Two totally separate species. Testudo Hermani and Testudo Graeca.