putting back into the wild

[dolfanjack]

If you where to take a tortoise/turtle from the wild legally, not introduce it to any other animals including reptiles and chelonians:
1) What diseases is it likely to pick up?
2) What time frame before it is recommended NOT to place it back to the wild?
3) Why should there be a time frame at all if there is no disease?
Only if you can put it back in the same area you find it. Jack

 

[Jacqui]

In the scene you set up, there are no other reptiles around to give the WC (wild caught) and new disease. The care taker, if exposed to other reptiles, could carry in new diseases on their hands, clothes, shoes, ect.

More of an issue would be what the WC already has inside of itself. Many diseases and parasites will lay dormant or co-exist in harmony with the carrier. However once the carrier, in this case the WC, becomes stressed parasites may bloom in numbers or the disease suddenly become an issue.

Now besides stress other things may cause these problems to happen. The diet, such as a high increase in fruits, or the simple fact that your holding this animal in a very confined space where he may tract thru his own feces or eat them at a higher rate then would occur naturally in the wild could cause a huge increase in parasites.

Or perhaps because of being under stress, his weakened system falls prey to something as common as an Upper Respiratory Infection (URI). These are all things that may not be showing up to the care taker, but are affecting the animal.

If you then place this animal back into the wild, his stools would be carrying a very large,active number of parasites/eggs and be passed on to others who cross his path even long after he has moved on. If he comes into contact with another tortoise and perhaps has gotten a case of URI, that could be passed on to the next animal he meets. He could become a walking carrier much like the famous human Typhoid Mary.

 

[Maggie Cummings]

Very good response Jacqui and I agree totally. Some of this stuff lays dormant for years until some sort of stress brings it out, then look out! It is a very bad idea to release any animal like that...

 

[dolfanjack]

Niether of you answered the question though. How long in captivity before it is not ok to release into the wild? 1minute, one hour, a day how long? Stress of any kind can cause natural flaura in the gut to expand to numbers that cause disease even in the wild Right? so that doesn't seem like a ligitmate reason. Also anyone on a nature trail can pick up a disease from one reptile and give it to another so that doesn't seem to be a good argument. And finally, how are rehab centers different. They rehab and then release to the wild.

 

[Jacqui]

Niether of you answered the question though. How long in captivity before it is not ok to release into the wild? 1minute, one hour, a day how long? Stress of any kind can cause natural flaura in the gut to expand to numbers that cause disease even in the wild Right? so that doesn't seem like a ligitmate reason. Also anyone on a nature trail can pick up a disease from one reptile and give it to another so that doesn't seem to be a good argument. And finally, how are rehab centers different. They rehab and then release to the wild.

I didn't answer the rest of the questions, because (like so much else) there is no set in stone answer and everybody has their own opinions and reasons for them.

True stress can happen any time and any where, but a WC would be under more stress for a longer amount of time then most likely it would face in the wild, thus increasing the chances of issues resulting.

Same with the walk in the woods. The odds of a chance crossing of paths while the disease is still viable is immensely slim. Within an enclosed area, chances go up. As do repeated times the WC might encounter the same contaminated spot or the caretaker may transmit it.

As how are rehab centers different... that's the same question I have had for years. I think it's one of those do as I say, not as I do situations. To me it's the same exact thing. Or may be they just think they know more then us average folks or can do things better then us.

Hopefully somebody who has a different, a better, or a less jaded opinion will come forward with answers.

 

[PeanutbuttER]

...anyone on a nature trail can pick up a disease from one reptile and give it to another so that doesn't seem to be a good argument.

I don't quite agree with you here. People on nature trails don't really come in too close of contact with enough reptiles directly to become infected by them. Sure, if a person was walking around, searching for tortoises, handling every tortoise they can find, and then moving on to the next one then yes I'd agree with you. Since 99% of hikers aren't out there to catalog reptiles though, I think that Jacqui gave a very realistic answer.

However, in a captive setting, where keepers may in fact go from handling one animal (or its feces, or anything else that may be contaminated) to handling another within a remarkably short period of time, then the odds of cross-contamination increases exponentially. Especially considering that there could be contagions spread between incompatible species (an "African" sulcata to a CDT to a RF to an RT for instance) even without them being housed together. This is very plausible considering it's not uncommon for people to have a varied "collection" of torts.

I do agree with you though about the rehab shelters. That's exactly what they're doing. However, you gotta wonder what's more dangerous to the animals they bring in; the risk of cross-contamination or the disease/injury they've already got.

Interesting point about typhoid Mary. I googled her. What an interesting way to live, being a carrier for thypoid and just happening to also be a cook and getting everyone sick.

 

[Madkins007]

The rule of thumb I have read is that captured (kidnapped) wild turtles or tortoises should be released within 8 months and 1 mile of the capture site to maximize the odds of success.

Disease is not the only issue. Mental maps of the territory help them find food and shelter as well as avoiding dangerous areas. The animal also has to have an instinctive feel for the natural cycles and rhythms of the area.

The turtles and tortoises are picking stuff up from us as well- RI, herpesevirus, and other zoonoses AND they are getting diseases from other animals in our homes. If I remember the information correctly, Desert Tortoises are notorious for picking up stuff and infecting colonies upon release.

 

[dolfanjack]

...anyone on a nature trail can pick up a disease from one reptile and give it to another so that doesn't seem to be a good argument.

I don't quite agree with you here. People on nature trails don't really come in too close of contact with enough reptiles directly to become infected by them. Sure, if a person was walking around, searching for tortoises, handling every tortoise they can find, and then moving on to the next one then yes I'd agree with you. Since 99% of hikers aren't out there to catalog reptiles though, I think that Jacqui gave a very realistic answer.

However, in a captive setting, where keepers may in fact go from handling one animal (or its feces, or anything else that may be contaminated) to handling another within a remarkably short period of time, then the odds of cross-contamination increases exponentially. Especially considering that there could be contagions spread between incompatible species (an "African" sulcata to a CDT to a RF to an RT for instance) even without them being housed together. This is very plausible considering it's not uncommon for people to have a varied "collection" of torts.

I do agree with you though about the rehab shelters. That's exactly what they're doing. However, you gotta wonder what's more dangerous to the animals they bring in; the risk of cross-contamination or the disease/injury they've already got.

Interesting point about typhoid Mary. I googled her. What an interesting way to live, being a carrier for thypoid and just happening to also be a cook and getting everyone sick.

I totally disagree with you there, where I live we don't have many turtles and no tortoises but we do have snakes, newts, salamanders, and frogs and I have been on hikes were the objective was to find them and pick them up and admire them, even in college with professors. I also have seen on these forums people finding box turtles and taking their picture then letting them go. I think it happens more then you might believe.

 

[Madortoise]

There are folks working on rehabilitating wild tortoises....Perhaps they may have some specific pointers and cautions.
http://www.deserttortoiserescue.org/home.html

 

[Crazy1]

I can’t speak for anywhere but S. CA. and here you are not allowed, to handle a tortoise or Western Pond Turtle (our two native Chelonians) unless they are in the middle of the road. Then and only then can you, by approaching it from the front pick it up move it about 100 yards or so, out of harms way, and release it in the same direction it was going. If anyone is found harassing, picking up, touching, etc for any other reason it is a fine of about $10,000.00 and or time in Jail. But getting caught is the factor here. We have plenty of people picking up DT in our Deserts and taking them home. I hear it all the time. We just keep trying to educate the public and let them know what this does to wild populations.
Not all hatchlings are meant to survive so if I take that one out of the wild, I just decreased the population by one and potentially many, many more as it reaches sexual maturity.
Only specialized rehab centers here are allowed to release into the wild and they have to have each animal tested for diseases etc. before they are allowed to release them. But then who knows and why take the risk. Let the wild population remain Wild and if you want a Turt or Tort find a reputable breeder.