Pacific Pond Turtle - Actinemys marmorata

[Anthony P]

Hey everyone,

I've had this turtle for about 6 months now, and have yet to share any photos of her, except for on our gallery pages at theturtleroom.com.

Those that know me know that I have a real interest in cold tolerant species that will do well in my cold CT climate, rather than the turtle "rock stars" out there that may be more desireable or popular, but might not thrive here.

PPTs are definately underrepresented in collections, for whatever reasons. However, I find them extremely beautiful and important, and am excited to continue to work with them in the future.

Thanks for looking,

Anthony

 

[harris]

Nice! I agree with you; I love the cold hardy species. These guys, Blanding's, NA Woods.......

 

[Anthony P]

Yup! I also keep Blanding's, Spotteds, and European Ponds.. I would love to keep NA Woods, if they weren't protected here, but they are. Doesn't bother me though. I'd rather have them protected than have the opportunity to keep them.

 

[RedfootsRule]

Well, she looks interesting from the pictures I can see from her. And they definitely must be under-represented, because I've never heard of them until now .
Are you planning on breeding in the future?

 

[Yvonne G]

Probably the reason they are hard to find is because they are protected in their home range. It is illegal to have them.

 

[Gerards]

Probably the reason they are hard to find is because they are protected in their home range. It is illegal to have them.

It's illegal to have then in California but no problem outside the state from a legal source.

 

[luvpetz27]

Very cute!

 

[Anthony P]

Yes Redfoots, that is the plan. I won't keep anything that isn't meant to be bred and is worth the effort...

Pretty recently, these guys were classified under same genus (Clemmys) as Spotted, Bog and NA Wood Turtles. These guys have experienced pretty rapid decline due to habitat destruction and they've been lucky to avoid the pet market for the most part. They are the only water turtle native to CA, and they and Western Painteds are the only turtles on the West Coast.

 

[Shelly]

I'd rather have them protected than have the opportunity to keep them.

I wish more people had your attitude is this regard.

 

[Anthony P]

Thanks Shelly...

It's taken me time to feel that way. I guess it has to do with the general maturation process.

I will say, that I am excited, for the time being, since I was just offered a pair of these to add to this lone female. She is great, and she deserves to have a chance to make great hatchlings in the future. We'll see if this happens, and you guys will be the first to know if it does! I don't keep anything I don't intend to have breeding groups of, so my having just her thus far has been a bit odd, while I've waited to find her a group.

 

[theTurtleRoom]

I'd rather have them protected than have the opportunity to keep them.

I wish more people had your attitude is this regard.

My feelings here are a little more complicated...it depends on the type of protection used and all the things that happen because of it. Some protection measures taken by the US government (I'm particularly thinking of certain parts of the ESA) have a more negative impact than positive. Yes, I want things protected. But, many things need more than protection, they need reproduction. When both happen, is when the protection is really working to its fullest.

 

[Gerards]

My feelings here are a little more complicated...it depends on the type of protection used and all the things that happen because of it. Some protection measures taken by the US government (I'm particularly thinking of certain parts of the ESA) have a more negative impact than positive. Yes, I want things protected. But, many things need more than protection, they need reproduction. When both happen, is when the protection is really working to its fullest.

Habitat protection seems to be more important sometimes. Reproduction is the easy part, stoping the cause of the problem is what really needs attention.

 

[CtTortoiseMom]

Very beautiful!

 

[Kapidolo Farms]

It's always funny for me, a California native, to see people fuss over the one native aquatic from the state. They are protected over their entire range, not just California BTW. And you can have two with a fishing license as long as any progeny are parted with in X days after they are born, to others with a fishing license, or under the age of needing a fishing license. As one Cal F&G person told me that allowance is so people who fish and incidentally catch one, aren't in violation of the law, whilst they put it back. And that is about 20 year old info, maybe totally a no-no now?

Anyhow, seems like rare envy to me, they also live in warm climes, like the Mojave Desert, and are about as attractive as many other species (already listed). By breeding them out of range, you open the door to all those same little BS stories that opened up the whole of the US to Aussie lizards that have NEVER been legally exported to the US, directly or otherwise. There are several in-situ programs for them in all range states.

Aside from Oregon and Washington (the state) every state (well maybe not Idaho) in the US has several species, including cold tolerant species (yeah even you guys in sunny Florida). These just happen to have been overlooked by most as they are not a 'glamour' species, other than their 'rarity' in collections.

The first ones I saw as a child were native to the sand dunes of what is now the Sunset District in San Francisco. They were native 'invasives' to my grandparents' backyard pond for goldfish. Many still persists in out of the way places all over CA, waste water treatment plants, decorative garden ponds, park ponds, even elevated stock tanks more than 25 miles from vernal/ephemeral ponds or creeks (go figure that one out, they are excellent climbers).

I had a few as pets when I was pre-teen. I had a chicken wire lid over the pond to prevent escape. Once I found one about two feet from the edge of the vertical sides, hanging upside down with it's feet through the holes in the chicken wire. So it climbed up, and then onto the underside of the lid - plastron up, and out from the edge about two feet - did I say they are good climbers?

Will

 

[Gerards]

It's always funny for me, a California native, to see people fuss over the one native aquatic from the state. They are protected over their entire range, not just California BTW. And you can have two with a fishing license as long as any progeny are parted with in X days after they are born, to others with a fishing license, or under the age of needing a fishing license. As one Cal F&G person told me that allowance is so people who fish and incidentally catch one, aren't in violation of the law, whilst they put it back. And that is about 20 year old info, maybe totally a no-no now?

Anyhow, seems like rare envy to me, they also live in warm climes, like the Mojave Desert, and are about as attractive as many other species (already listed). By breeding them out of range, you open the door to all those same little BS stories that opened up the whole of the US to Aussie lizards that have NEVER been legally exported to the US, directly or otherwise. There are several in-situ programs for them in all range states.

Aside from Oregon and Washington (the state) every state (well maybe not Idaho) in the US has several species, including cold tolerant species (yeah even you guys in sunny Florida). These just happen to have been overlooked by most as they are not a 'glamour' species, other than their 'rarity' in collections.

The first ones I saw as a child were native to the sand dunes of what is now the Sunset District in San Francisco. They were native 'invasives' to my grandparents' backyard pond for goldfish. Many still persists in out of the way places all over CA, waste water treatment plants, decorative garden ponds, park ponds, even elevated stock tanks more than 25 miles from vernal/ephemeral ponds or creeks (go figure that one out, they are excellent climbers).

I had a few as pets when I was pre-teen. I had a chicken wire lid over the pond to prevent escape. Once I found one about two feet from the edge of the vertical sides, hanging upside down with it's feet through the holes in the chicken wire. So it climbed up, and then onto the underside of the lid - plastron up, and out from the edge about two feet - did I say they are good climbers?

Will

Yes, they catch spotted turtles every 5 years or so near me hear in central florida and it NEVER freezes here.

I think his cold weather preference is do to his location and what a species can handle, not just animals that live in the cold.

Rare envy?

I had a Stink Pot do the same thing when I was younger. It was completely upside down and right in the middle of the lid.

 

[Anthony P]

Steve, good point!

Will, part of it is possibly rare envy, definately for most. However, their habits, like that of Emydoidea and Emys who they are now believed to eb so similar to, as well as Clemmys and Glyptemys whom Actinemys once shared a genus with, happen to make them facinating to me. Unfortunately, one could argue that those habits also make all of the above mentioned genera subject to common turtle killers like collection for the pet trade, habitat destruction and road mortailities. Add all that with the fact that all of these genera are long lived, and it makes it that much more difficult for them to recover from said dangers.

So, in short, what makes them rare is what also makes them special, in my opinion, for two different reasons. I could just prefer RES, because they are not in need of as much help, but that wouldn't make much sence in my cool climate where space is at a premium. If I lived on my uncle's property in GA, I'd probably be chatting it up with other Aldabra Tortoise enthusiasts about my group of those, but I choose to base my projects around animals that are worth my time AND good fits for my sometimes less than ideal CT climate.

Always appreciate the good convo guys. And Will, I do appreciate a point of view from the CA side of things. It's always wild to hear things like that. Like someone in India showing you the Roof Turtles they bought since they're cheaper there than RES.

Oh yeah, and I know I've mentioned it, but I find Actinemys to be extremely attractive animals. I sit and stare at the marbled pattern for hours.

 

[Kapidolo Farms]

I have seen a few that look like they iron pyrite (fools' gold) in there shells, especially in flowing water, they could be fishing lures for some kind of giant fish with that flashy coloration. They are one of those species that looks at your face, not you as an amorphous blob, but right at your face. I know many species or individuals do this, but the first glance a pond turtles makes at you is your face, looking to see if you see it. They are very flight guys too.

Roof turtle in Indiana (ohhh, India, yeah, right) - geometric in Philadelphia - Thank you Hank Molt in the late 60's.

Will

 

[sibi]

Fascinating read.

It's always funny for me, a California native, to see people fuss over the one native aquatic from the state. They are protected over their entire range, not just California BTW. And you can have two with a fishing license as long as any progeny are parted with in X days after they are born, to others with a fishing license, or under the age of needing a fishing license. As one Cal F&G person told me that allowance is so people who fish and incidentally catch one, aren't in violation of the law, whilst they put it back. And that is about 20 year old info, maybe totally a no-no now?

Anyhow, seems like rare envy to me, they also live in warm climes, like the Mojave Desert, and are about as attractive as many other species (already listed). By breeding them out of range, you open the door to all those same little BS stories that opened up the whole of the US to Aussie lizards that have NEVER been legally exported to the US, directly or otherwise. There are several in-situ programs for them in all range states.

Aside from Oregon and Washington (the state) every state (well maybe not Idaho) in the US has several species, including cold tolerant species (yeah even you guys in sunny Florida). These just happen to have been overlooked by most as they are not a 'glamour' species, other than their 'rarity' in collections.

The first ones I saw as a child were native to the sand dunes of what is now the Sunset District in San Francisco. They were native 'invasives' to my grandparents' backyard pond for goldfish. Many still persists in out of the way places all over CA, waste water treatment plants, decorative garden ponds, park ponds, even elevated stock tanks more than 25 miles from vernal/ephemeral ponds or creeks (go figure that one out, they are excellent climbers).

I had a few as pets when I was pre-teen. I had a chicken wire lid over the pond to prevent escape. Once I found one about two feet from the edge of the vertical sides, hanging upside down with it's feet through the holes in the chicken wire. So it climbed up, and then onto the underside of the lid - plastron up, and out from the edge about two feet - did I say they are good climbers?

Will

 

[Anthony P]

Really cool to hear you say that about their looking you in the face Will. Very interesting for sure, as I've seen the same thing. My sliders react more to vibrations or lights being turned on or off, and I'd never say they'd look you in the eye.

I love reading about Hank Molt. Great books out about him. Is he still alive? I can't recall if the books mention that... I thought he was alive.. Hmm