new set up

[poison]

heres my corn snakes set up that im trying out.

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[Lilithlee]

If you're play hide and seek, I lose. Is there a snake in there?

 

[poison]

If you're play hide and seek, I lose. Is there a snake in there?

haha hes in the first pic under the bark to the right. its a snow corn

 

[Lilithlee]

Ok, I see him now! lol.

 

[Floof]

That looks nice! Is the plant fake or live? You'll have to keep us updated on whether this arrangement works out or not!

 

[poison]

this set up works great. im using a sand soil mix for substrate and i collected some leafs from out side that has bio active bugs on it that helps break down waste. he has a basking spot of 105F and a cool side of 78F.

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oh and the plant is real. its a pothos

 

[Floof]

It's wonderful that the set up is working out, but just a head's up, your temperatures are MUCH too high.

Corn snakes need a basking/warm spot in the mid 80s. Temps above 90 can prove extremely dangerous, if not deadly, to them. It would be VERY beneficial if you could try to drop the basking temperature to the mid 80s (not above about 88F) and let the cool end fall into the 70s so he can thermoregulate properly. Even if you choose to keep the high temp basking spot (there's nothing wrong with testing new things), you need to at least make sure he has an area in the low 70s that he can escape to if the heat is too much for him.

That is cool that the naturalistic arrangement is working well, though. Have you read The Art of Keeping Snakes by Phillipe de Vosjoli? If not, I think you would enjoy it! I've been thinking about trying a naturalistic set up for my beauty rat snake (semi-arboreal) once my 3'x1.5'x2' (lxwxh) viv is empty (just need to replace some glass track and upgrade the little tortoise to a bigger enclosure! Can't wait!). I'll be sure to post a thread about it when the time comes.

 

[poison]

thanks. and yeah the cool side is a little high but thats because i have wood over half the `the enclosure to keep in heat and i will be removing it. and i dont think that the basking spot is a problem sense he does seek it out.

and i will definitely check that article out do you have a link to it or is it a book?

and i love beauty snakes i would love to see pica

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now i removed the wood and the cool side dropped to 74

 

[Floof]

Good, definitely keep that cool side down low so he can cool off if needed. Otherwise, like I said, nothing wrong with trying new things... Just look how far tortoise care has come in the last few years, with people trying high humidity/hydration with "desert" species! Actually, there is a corn snake breeder trying something similar over at the Cornsnakes.com forum. You might check in with him and find out how things are going with that. Here's his thread on the subject: http://www.cornsnakes.com/forums/showthread.php?t=122237

I'm not gutsy enough to be trying it any time soon, but it'll be interesting to see how it pans out for you and others like Chip who are experimenting with the idea.

(On another note, while I was tracking down Chip's thread on experimenting with a HOT hot side, I came across this thread regarding bioactive substrate in relation to corns. I haven't had a chance to go through the thread yet, but I'm sure the discussion will be a good read! http://www.cornsnakes.com/forums/showthread.php?t=53051)

The Art of Keeping Snakes is a book. Great book, with lots of pretty pictures, lol. Actually, there's a section in the back with some little species overviews, and this section is how I first stumbled across Taiwan Beauties... Here's my little girl! (She was having an interesting week--decided I was VERY tasty, two days in a row... Hasn't happened again, but it was quite funny!)

 

[poison]

wow a hot spot of 145F that beats me lol. i wont be trying that any time soon lol. thanks for the links i will still have to go over the bio active one though.

thats a beautiful little snake. ive been looking for one. ive come across a few at pet stores but i dont trust a lot of pet stores in my area.

 

[Floof]

Haha. Yeah, a hot spot above 88 makes me nervous--much less something THAT hot! I won't be trying it, but it'll still be interesting to see how it pans out! The closest I might ever come to trying that is when I get my new snake rack here in a month and a half--I have to put my two BCIs in it for now (it's primarily for my colubrids and rosies), so I'll have to set the heat to 90F. Only 5 degrees above what I normally keep my corns at, but enough that I'll be watching them closely. Who knows, though. Maybe, if the 90-ish hot spot works well for the corns, I'll keep it there even after the BCIs move out!

Thanks! I found her at a reptile expo in Seattle this April. She was the last one left from last season (and the only Beauty rat in the entire expo!). I got her from Lance Portal Reptiles out of Oregon. I don't know whether he's breeding them again this year, but it might be worth checking with him to find out!

I know what you mean about pet stores. Before I found this gal, my roommate and I were up by Seattle for some reason or another and stopped in at a pet store up there. There was a STUNNING sub-adult Taiwan Beauty, still pretty small at maybe 4-ish ft and a little slim, and pretty decent temperament (despite the owner's constant warnings that she's supposedly known to bite--I almost laughed at him... My first snake bite was a feeding response from a 6 or so ft Beauty, so the 4 ft-er hardly had me nervous!), and it was SO tempting to see how far he would negotiate on the price to let her come home... But this store just radiated bad care. I'm glad I didn't try, especially when I later found out this store is known for having mite-infested reptiles. Blech!

 

[poison]

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he ate three adult mice then took a long bath after lol

 

[Floof]

Wow, he's gorgeous! I love colorful snows.

 

[poison]

thanks . im thinking about getting a female and having them breed. another member on another forum keeps several of his reptiles this same way and they lay there eggs and hatch in the substrate.

 

[Floof]

Before you decide to breed, keep in mind there is a LOT you have to consider. Breeding can get expensive--it's very rare that breeders break even, and especially in the first couple years, you probably won't even come close. There's a lot of work involved, naturally.

The corn snake market is pretty well flooded, especially with basic morphs like the normals/amels/aneries/snows you'll likely wind up with. If you do decide to breed, you need to be sure you have an outlet for them (do you have a good pet store in the area who would buy them? Is the demand for corn snakes in your area high enough that you'll be able to find homes for your babies while competing with established breeders? How determined are you to find good homes for all of them: Will you hand them off to the first Joe Blows to your door with cash, or are you prepared to spend months screening homes and picking the right people to purchase one of your babies?). You need to be prepared to be able to keep any babies who don't sell, potentially for months or years, while you look for homes.

As far as letting the eggs incubate in the enclosure, that in and of itself is extremely risky: With the snake burrowing around in the dirt, she can easily upset the clutch and knock the eggs around (rolling during incubation is lethal to reptile eggs), you can't keep an eye on the eggs, and any eggs that go bad will simply be left to rot and harbor bad bacteria in the substrate. Corn snakes DO eat other corn snakes, so when they do hatch, you run the risk of Mom making a meal out of babies before you catch them; even if you let them incubate and hatch in an enclosure separate from either adult, you risk the babies making a first meal out of each other if you don't find them and pull them quickly enough.

Not trying to talk you out of it.. Just making clear the considerations and risks of what you're wanting to do.

Also remember that corns are solitary, not social. If you do decide to get a female and breed, she will need her own separate enclosure, away from the male, for both of their health, safety, and peace of mind.

After taking everything into consideration, if you still wish to try breeding and feel that you're ready for the commitment, the Corn Snake forum I linked to in a previous post is a great place to learn all you need to know and get advice as you move forward with your venture.

 

[poison]

I've never heard or seen corn snakes eat each other for food. I've heard horror stories of corns and balls eating each other while grabbing the same mouse. but corns are not cannibalistic like a milk or king. and corns don't really burrow they will only burrow if there is not enough hiding spots in the enclosure but they prefer leaf litter and hide ways.

and I've bred corns in the past but it wasn't really for me. i know several people that would love to take them off my hands and they are close friends and people that I've graven other reptiles to.

and you bring up a good point about there being a rick of the eggs going bad which is also one of the things that im considering though i would still love to test out this theory. but it will probably have to wait a while.

 

[Floof]

Corn snakes can and have committed cannibalism. It is primarily seen between hatchlings, rather than adults--indeed, adults are much likely to find a viable food source other than other snakes, but, in hatchlings, with their small size, they truly need to be opportunistic and eat whatever viable thing they come across in order to survive and grow: Including other hatchling snakes.

Here is a recent post over at the corn snake forum offering photographic proof of cannibalism among hatchlings: http://www.cornsnakes.com/forums/showpost.php?p=1478386&postcount=19 If you do a search on the forum for cohabitation/cohabbing/other applicable terms, you will find plenty of discussions/arguments/debates on the matter, and plenty of reasons why not to do it.

Considering that corn snakes most definitely ARE capable of cannibalism, I would not put it past an adult to see a hatchling rooting around in its enclosure as an easy meal.

Cannibalism risk aside, though, there are plenty of other reasons to reconsider housing snakes together. First and foremost is stress. Corn snakes are not social. They don't get enjoyment being around other snakes; on the contrary, they see other snakes as little more than competition (unless it's breeding season, in which case it's a mate and depart affair). In a captive situation, they have a limited amount of space and cannot truly get away from another snake in their territory. So that competition now becomes a constant stressor. Being constantly stressed weakens the snakes' immune systems, making them more prone to succumbing to illness or parasites. Stress can also cause them to go off food or regurgitate.

Spread of illness: In the event one DOES contract an illness or parasite, the odds of that illness spreading to the other inhabitant(s) of the same enclosure are nearly 100%. If one snake develops an illness or contracts parasites, odds are, every other snake it shares a habitat with will also become ill.

If someone regurgitates or has a particularly suspicious/nasty/parasite-infested poo, you probably won't be able to tell who it is and, therefore, who needs to be quarantined and treated versus simply tested for the illness and watched closely.

Anyway, these are just some arguments against the idea of cohabitation. I realize you didn't actually say whether you intend to or not, but if you are... Well, here's some food for thought.

There are people who have done it successfully. You have to know your snakes extremely well, in order to be able to tell when something is wrong. Naturally, quarantine is vital before putting the animals together (that's true in any case, of course, but especially when you won't be monitoring them separately post-quarantine). A very large space with multiple water dishes, warm and cool areas, hides, etc. And NEVER house a male and a female together except when to mate, then separate. A male can easily overbreed a female if they are housed together. If the female isn't big enough or healthy enough to safely breed, they can breed too soon and you may find yourself with an emaciated and/or eggbound female. After egg laying, the male may breed her again, regardless of whether she's fit enough to even consider double-clutching. Then there's the simple stress from the male constantly seeking to mate, whether the female is receptive or not.

Cohabitation is somewhat popular in Europe. From what I gather, success over there revolves around these points I've laid out. In the UK, keepers tend to choose large vivaria over rack housing, so groups are kept in very large, hide-heavy "displays" where the snakes have better opportunities to avoid each other and go their separate ways. Most will keep only proven males and proven females together--separate completely from the opposite sex to avoid premature or over-breeding. Combined, of course, with constant monitoring, it is possible to cohabitate with very reduced risk, but please ensure that you have researched it heavily and know exactly what you're doing before you try.

Whoops, wound up writing a novel. Sorry! Just hoping to make all points known. You may be already aware of all of this and intend to act accordingly, or you may not. I do hope you are receptive to the information I have to offer, if you aren't already aware of the risks, etc, of cohabitation.

 

[poison]

you wright a lot lol.

and i would never keep the snakes together after breeding hell i would probably take both of them out of the enclosure just to see how the eggs do and if they rot and cause bacteria to set in then the snakes wont be harmed. but again this wont be for a while. and yes i know reptiles are not social creatures infact we get a lot of other people on another forum looking fot a buddy for there snake then we show them this

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[Floof]

Lol, yes, I do. I'm chronically long-winded.

I'm very glad to hear that. It's all too often that I come across people who are convinced they need to cohabitate for whatever reason (i.e., like you said, want their snake to have "a buddy")...

Sad picture, but it does an excellent job of making the point! I'd never heard of cannibalism in ball pythons (granted, I don't keep them), so it's very good to know that, too, is a risk. I'll have to keep that photo in mind next time I come across someone who's 100% convinced their ball pythons are best friends. HA. They may not be especially prone to cannibalism, but it sure helps drive the point home!

That would be a very interesting project--naturalistic incubation, that is. If you decide to do it, I'd love to hear how it turns out!

 

[poison]

i believe that one snake saw the other ones head as a mouse and stuck it and ate it then obviously they both died.

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heirs a interesting and funny read on bio active substrate that the same guy that helped me out is using for his leos and there is also a vid of a leo hatching from being in the substrate http://www.herpcenter.com/leopard-geckos/41924-leopard-geckos-can-sure-put-away-mice.html