New Russian Tortoise - what behavior should I be looking out for?

[Terradith]

Hello again!

So you all gave me confirmation that this mature tortoise I've ended up with is a Russian. And I'm still trying to figure out how much I should be letting it do on it's own, or pushing to help it eat/move/soak/etc.

Firstly- I received the tortoise having been kept in a 40 gallon aquarium, with river rocks as the only substrate, no hiding places and no where to soak. It had a heat lamp inside the tank (most likely keeping it around 100f or above) and only being fed store bought tortoise food dry food. I'm guessing it has had conditions like this for a year minimum.

I live in Seattle, WA, so our weather right now has not allowed me to bring it outside everyday as I'd like. It's now in a rubbermaid tub, and am building it something larger for long-term. It has sand, bark and coconut fiber as substrate. It has a spot to soak, not huge, but enough for it to get fully into. It has a 5.0UV bulb I read was appropriate for tortoises, and I adjusted the heat lamp so that it's about 90-95f in it's heated spot. It's about 70-75 or below in the wooden den. The humidity is around 60-65.

I'm feeding it different veggies, a lot of kale, (although it seems to prefer carrots and squash) and small amounts of fruit, all of the kinds I've read online are ok. I usually add a small handful (my hands are tiny) every other day, as that's as often as the dish turns up empty. I've added a very small amount of very very finely crushed boiled chicken egg shell, although it usually falls to the bottom and it hasn't really had any yet.

I have watched it walked around and soak only a few times since bringing it home a little over a week ago. About half of the days it just stays under it's wooden cave.

Is there anything I should be "forcing" it to do? Should I be taking it out of it's den, or removing the den so it gets more UV rays? Should I be soaking it like I've read about? It seems to pull it's legs in every time I hold it, but I've read you need to dry it after soaking. How do I do this if it's so scared of me? I don't want to overwhelm it, since basically everything changed drastically in a moment for it, but I want it to be healthy.

 

[lismar79]

Give this a read. Many of your questions can be answered here in this link. Your diet is not ideal but you will get a ton of info by reading this
http://www.tortoiseforum.org/threads/russian-tortoise-care-sheet.80698/

 

[Terradith]

Give this a read. Many of your questions can be answered here in this link. Your diet is not ideal but you will get a ton of info by reading this
http://www.tortoiseforum.org/threads/russian-tortoise-care-sheet.80698/

Awesome thank you! I tried to find the species specific care sheet and couldn't find it.

 

[Terradith]

Also kind of curious if anyone thinks it's worth trying to keep this tortoise somewhere that it can't be outside more is even worth it? Is the ideal situation to try to find it a home in a different state I could drive it to, like California? I don't have income right now, so I'm barely affording the things I am providing for it. It was just killing me to see it in the small aquarium with no water, and no raw food, so I asked a the owner if they wanted me to take it home for a bit. It's her pet, so it'll be her choice, but trying to give it enough space seems really difficult, and I don't think she new what she was getting herself into buying it as a teenager.

 

[TerraTheRussian]

I live about 2 hours from Seattle and plan on keeping my Russian indoors in the winter. It sounds like you have done research and ate off to a great start. There are a lot of weeds and greens around here that are good like dandilions.

 

[Terradith]

I live about 2 hours from Seattle and plan on keeping my Russian indoors in the winter. It sounds like you have done research and ate off to a great start. There are a lot of weeds and greens around here that are good like dandilions.

Thank you! I don't have any dandelions in my own yard and didn't trust other people's yards or parks to be pesticide free, but was able to buy some along with cilantro and other things at the local co-op.

So you're able to keep yours outside in the summer? That gives me hope! How do toy keep it hot enough? Seattle isn't as hot as some of the surrounding areas so it still might be a bit more difficult.

 

[RosemaryDW]

Welcome to the forum and thank you for your interest in providing a healthy home for your tortoise! This is a great place for advice. You're off to a great start!

Some quick comments:

The tortoise is nervous in a new place and needs time to get comfortable. That said, it surely needs a soaking after living on rocks. It may not enjoy soaking at first (and maybe you won't either!) but it definitely won't hurt it. You don't need to dry a tortoise after soaking.

Your tortoise should not have fruit or carrot in its diet. A Russian tortoise cannot properly digest the sugars in those foods. Some squash is okay.

The care sheet has linked above has good info on food, even if you are limited to grocery foods. With winter coming and fewer fresh foods weeds and other foods available, many owners will be relying on them for their tortoises. You can read up on the longer lists of good foods later, when you've gotten more comfortable as an owner.

I'm taking the liberty of copying out just the portion on store bought foods from Tom's care sheet below:

If you must use grocery store foods I like to favor spring mix, endive and escarole heavily. Also add in carrot tops, cilantro, mustard, turnip and collard greens, and lots of other leafy greens.
It is a good idea to add a product called "Salad Style" to grocery store greens to add some fiber: http://www.tortoisesupply.com/salad-style-food-topper/
This is a new food topper and I like it a lot so far: http://www.tortoisesupply.com/HerbalHay
You can also feed them grape, mulberry and hibiscus leaves, tender young spineless opuntia cactus pads, Mazuri tortoise chow and ZooMed Grassland tortoise food. Alternating and mixing up any of these foods will give your russian a good diet and meet its nutritional needs.​

 

[TerraTheRussian]

Is your toryoise named Terra by chance? I just noticed your username is similar to mine.

I only put her out in her outdoor enclosure during the day in the summers when temps are btw 70-95, so she lives mostly indoors.

 

[Terradith]

Welcome to the forum and thank you for your interest in providing a healthy home for your tortoise! This is a great place for advice. You're off to a great start!

Some quick comments:

The tortoise is nervous in a new place and needs time to get comfortable. That said, it surely needs a soaking after living on rocks. It may not enjoy soaking at first (and maybe you won't either!) but it definitely won't hurt it. You don't need to dry a tortoise after soaking.

Your tortoise should not have fruit or carrot in its diet. A Russian tortoise cannot properly digest the sugars in those foods. Some squash is okay.

The care sheet has linked above has good info on food, even if you are limited to grocery foods. With winter coming and fewer fresh foods weeds and other foods available, many owners will be relying on them for their tortoises. You can read up on the longer lists of good foods later, when you've gotten more comfortable as an owner.

I'm taking the liberty of copying out just the portion on store bought foods from Tom's care sheet below:

If you must use grocery store foods I like to favor spring mix, endive and escarole heavily. Also add in carrot tops, cilantro, mustard, turnip and collard greens, and lots of other leafy greens.
It is a good idea to add a product called "Salad Style" to grocery store greens to add some fiber: http://www.tortoisesupply.com/salad-style-food-topper/
This is a new food topper and I like it a lot so far: http://www.tortoisesupply.com/HerbalHay
You can also feed them grape, mulberry and hibiscus leaves, tender young spineless opuntia cactus pads, Mazuri tortoise chow and ZooMed Grassland tortoise food. Alternating and mixing up any of these foods will give your russian a good diet and meet its nutritional needs.​

Awesome, thank you so much! I'm a little confused on the carrot and fruit thing though. I had read that grated carrot and grapes were ok, which is what I'd done, and is what is listed in what you quoted....so is a little bit ok, or should I not do it at all?

 

[RosemaryDW]

Oh haha, it's referring to to the tops from carrots and grape leaves. Not the carrots themselves and not the grapes from the vines. I never thought of it that way!

Lots of grocery stores cut the tops off their carrots so you might never have seen any. It's the part that grows above ground and looks a bit lacy. Here is a picture.



There must be a lot of old literature that lists carrots as a good food; it's not part of a Russian's diet in the wild--they are built to eat leaves. A little won't hurt, so long as your tortoise is eating a healthy and varied diet. Grapes are not okay.

I'm going to post the long food list of non grocery foods, also from Tom. Not so you run out tomorrow and start looking for all these things but you will know what leaves we mean!

If you are in Seattle, are you close to any large Asian markets or any farmers markets? They can provide more food options.

The long list:

Mulberry leaves
Grape vine leaves
Hibiscus leaves
African hibiscus leaves
Blue hibiscus leaves
Rose of Sharon leaves
Rose leaves
Geraniums
Gazanias
Lavatera
Pansies
Petunias
Hostas
Honeysuckle
Cape honeysuckle
Leaves and blooms from any squash plant, like pumpkin, cucumber, summer squash, etc...
Young spineless opuntia cactus pads

Weeds:
There are soooooooo many...
Dandelion
Mallow
Filaree
Smooth Sow thistle
Prickly Sow thistle
Milk thistle
Goat head weed
Cats ear
Nettles
Trefoil
Wild onion
Wild mustard
Wild Garlic
Clovers
Broadleaf plantain
Narrow leaf plantain
Chick weed
Hawksbit
Hensbit
Hawksbeard

Other good stuff:
"Testudo Seed Mix" from http://www.tortoisesupply.com/SeedMixes
Pasture mixes or other seeds from http://www.groworganic.com/seeds.html
Homegrown alfalfa
Mazuri Tortoise Chow
ZooMed Grassland Tortoise Food

 

[Taloan]

I have a question: are the grape leaves still good if they've been dried? I have three grape vines worth of grape leaves and they seem to be one of my Russian's favorite things to eat. I was wondering if they'd still be good if I dried them and fed them throughout the winter (among other things) I also happen to live in Seattle and would be happy to share, I have more than I could possibly use up.

 

[JoesMum]

I have a question: are the grape leaves still good if they've been dried? I have three grape vines worth of grape leaves and they seem to be one of my Russian's favorite things to eat. I was wondering if they'd still be good if I dried them and fed them throughout the winter (among other things) I also happen to live in Seattle and would be happy to share, I have more than I could possibly use up.

Short answer: Yes, you can dry them and feed them.

Longer answer: Your tort reserves the right to completely ignore them. I have never succeeded feeding dried leaves of plants my tort loves, no matter how I present them. I've tried soaking them, crushing them and sprinkling as an additive, feeding them whole ... nothing worked!

 

[RosemaryDW]

Darn picky tortoises!

One of our members started a good thread about freezing foods to use in winter: http://www.tortoiseforum.org/threads/these-can-be-frozen-thawed-and-retain-good-texture.128563/

You can see other members have frozen grape leaves successfully but their tortoise didn't eat them. Your tortoise may be entirely different, however.

I'd freeze and thaw a few now, chop one into a meal and see what she thinks. Frankly, even if she doesn't like them now I'd still freeze some. You never know what they'll eat one day to the next. Grape leaves are full of fiber, something that is great to add to grocery diets.

I might dry a few as well.

 

[GingerLove]

Terradith, welcome! It sounds like you are doing a splendid job on caring for your tortoise! Russians are feisty and amazing, and I think you will enjoy him/her thoroughly! If you are super unsure about keeping the tortoise outdoors... why not build and indoor cage and a temporary outdoor cage for it to play in? Many will disagree about keeping a tortoise indoors, but Russians are perhaps the easiest tortoise to keep indoors as they are so small. I keep mine indoors and try to let her out during the nice parts of the day for an hour or so.
Secondly, you do not need to force your tortoise to eat or go out in the UV rays, but you do need to force the soaking. I do it four times a week or so. My tortoise is getting used to it but she has/will always hate it. And I never dry my tortoise after the soak, I just let her outside to eat and the sun dries her. It's a lot less traumatizing for the tortoise.
Can you post pictures of your little torty? Do you know the gender?

 

[Terradith]

Terradith, welcome! It sounds like you are doing a splendid job on caring for your tortoise! Russians are feisty and amazing, and I think you will enjoy him/her thoroughly! If you are super unsure about keeping the tortoise outdoors... why not build and indoor cage and a temporary outdoor cage for it to play in? Many will disagree about keeping a tortoise indoors, but Russians are perhaps the easiest tortoise to keep indoors as they are so small. I keep mine indoors and try to let her out during the nice parts of the day for an hour or so.
Secondly, you do not need to force your tortoise to eat or go out in the UV rays, but you do need to force the soaking. I do it four times a week or so. My tortoise is getting used to it but she has/will always hate it. And I never dry my tortoise after the soak, I just let her outside to eat and the sun dries her. It's a lot less traumatizing for the tortoise.
Can you post pictures of your little torty? Do you know the gender?

Unfortunately, the owner of the tortoise will be taking it back soon, so I'm not building it anything else until I know if she's going to let it stay with me longer, or until she moves somewhere more permanent. But I have built it a bit larger indoor enclosure for the time being, about 8 square, obviously not ideal but better. It's still been warm enough for me to bring it outside sometimes. Just did yesterday actually and grabbed some pictures!

"His" name is Kurt, although don't think the owner actually knows the sex yet. I'd love to find out though, I'll have to look that up. And good to know about the feeding. It sounds like I've been getting on the right track, I've been doing soakings every other day and he's started eating and pooping more which made me relax a bit. I was definitely worried.

 

[Terradith]

Sorry for the late response, I responded through my phone but it didn't go through - thank you so much for the clarification! We've got lots of good produce variety near me, so this won't be too hard. Thank you!