Leop-cata "fad"

[Macheteslaststep]

Ok, so I was just reading the thread on the "new" leop-catas. I undertand they're a mutt technically, but couldn't help wondering...

This may be a completely stupid question but...

Could the extra large leopards out in the wild be crossbreeds of some sort? Maybe not first or even second generation, but somewhere in the line?

 

[SILVERSTAR]

wheres that thread at i missed it but it sounds interesting,everything ive ever heard about mixing species was frowned upon,even though ive seen a travencore hybrids for sale on a reputable tortoise site. this is new to me.

 

[Macheteslaststep]

I can't find the thread now o.o It vanished lol. I swear it was here though!

http://tortoiseforum.org/printthread.php?tid=11444

I found that one too. One of the posteres had the same idea as me.

 

[dmmj]

That is an old post, this is the one I think you were looking for
http://www.tortoiseforum.org/Thread-Leop-cata?highlight=leop-cata

 

[SILVERSTAR]

wow that is odd,im sure this has been discussed to great lengths but there could be long terms health issues here,ive seen a bit of hybridization in my own fish tank,i found pond snails in a creek and put em in my fish tank and they bred with my pet store snails ,its crazy they are all one way mostly now and its neither the petstore snail or the creek snail,the intermingling has gone one for over a year and a half now so theres no origonal snails left or prolly not even there grandfathers.IN A WAY ITS KINDA LIKE PLAYIN GOD ON A VERY SMALL CRUSTACEAN LEVEL.

 

[Kristina]

Sorry to hijack - make sure to NEVER let any of those hybridized snails get back into the creek!!!! It will literally destroy the wild population!

 

[Macheteslaststep]

That is an old post, this is the one I think you were looking for
http://www.tortoiseforum.org/Thread-Leop-cata?highlight=leop-cata

That's the one! Thanks

It just seems odd that they can hybridize and come across each other some way in the wild (either by traveling or with the help of people I'm sure)...so why wouldn't it happen? If the "giant" leopards are a mix of species, then is it as wrong? I guess the only way to really tell would be to get some samples.

Who's going over to stick some tortoises?

 

[moswen]

Who's going over to stick some tortoises?

OH ME!!!!! who's going to pay for it?

 

[Terry Allan Hall]

Rumors are that there'll some of these "leop-catas" at the Reptile Show in Arlington, Tx. tomorrow...doubt I'll be bringing one home, though.

 

[Tom]

Technically, a mutt is when two different breeds within a species reproduce. When two different species breed and produce offspring those are called a hybrid. It is very unlikely that the Ethiopian giant leopards are hybrids.

 

[SILVERSTAR]

yes i know not let them go back into the wild i wouldnt do that they are my pet snails,i have a fish tank with no fish only pet snails and a plant in it,im very aware of those dangers even with an animal as small as a snail,look wut happen in australia wit the cane toads,again if im off topic i jus wanted to clarify that id never let my mutant snails see a california waterway.

 

[Macheteslaststep]

Rumors are that there'll some of these "leop-catas" at the Reptile Show in Arlington, Tx. tomorrow...doubt I'll be bringing one home, though.

I almost think I would give one a try. I love my two boys, but they are so shy and unsociable. The sulcata we have at work is very active and outgoing. I know that the hybrid does not guarantee one way or another, but at the same time at least I know I wouldn't attempt to breed it. So then there'd be one less trying to reproduce

Tom - what is very unlikely about it? Sorry I used the word "mutts" I work for a vet and while we see reptiles, we see dogs more often. It kinda gets stuck in our head

moswen - if you get the money up I'll go with you for company!

 

[yagyujubei]

If they turn out to be all mules, then I would say no problem, might be great pets. If they're fertile, then could be problems down the line with genetic purity. Exotic birds are very hybridized, and in species like Lady Amhearst, almost ruined, in my opinion, by crossing with Goldens.

 

[Terry Allan Hall]

Rumors are that there'll some of these "leop-catas" at the Reptile Show in Arlington, Tx. tomorrow...doubt I'll be bringing one home, though.

I almost think I would give one a try. I love my two boys, but they are so shy and unsociable. The sulcata we have at work is very active and outgoing. I know that the hybrid does not guarantee one way or another, but at the same time at least I know I wouldn't attempt to breed it. So then there'd be one less trying to reproduce

Just rehomed my sulcatta earlier in the spring, due to a spinal injury that made lifting her unsafe (for either party), so I'm sticking w/ torts that'll never outgrow my screwed-up back.

Today's adventure will hopefully result in one or two new female Eastern Hermann's tortoises (my Winter Holidays present to myself ) and a male snow cornsnake (Winter Holidays present to my daughter).

 

[Nofx]

If a Leo x Cata can happen..then i guess it can allso be a Leo x Star?

 

[Tom]

I almost think I would give one a try. I love my two boys, but they are so shy and unsociable. The sulcata we have at work is very active and outgoing. I know that the hybrid does not guarantee one way or another, but at the same time at least I know I wouldn't attempt to breed it. So then there'd be one less trying to reproduce

Two points:
1. Even if you intend to never breed it, accidents happen. Also, what if something were to happen to you (car accident, for example) and someone else ended up with your tort down the road. Maybe that person doesn't understand the fine points of what we are talking about and since it kinda looks like a sulcata, they just put it in with their sulcata herd. Maybe, if you get one, you ought to look into getting it spayed or neutered.

2. What ever your intentions are, buying one of these abominations will only serve to encourage the person who bred them to breed more. The more he sells the more he will want to sell more. By contrast, if he ends up sitting on them and can't get rid of them, he'll likely not want to allow that breeding again.

 

[Neal]

2. What ever your intentions are, buying one of these abominations will only serve to encourage the person who bred them to breed more. The more he sells the more he will want to sell more. By contrast, if he ends up sitting on them and can't get rid of them, he'll likely not want to allow that breeding again.

Great point! People started doing this with box turtles awhile ago and now they're all over the place. I'd rather see a bunch of pure sulcata's in a rescue that few people want than a bunch of these hybrids in a rescue that NO ONE wants. Better to not encourage these types of people now before other people get the idea that there's money in doing this.

 

[John]

This has been part of my argument all along,the pet trade is a business fueled by the dollar as any other.it started with takind reps out of the wild and selling them its progressed too where anyone can breed and sell animals,when wild caught natural occuring animals became boring,or the availability outweighed the demand,genetic morps and mutations began too appear,there's money in it.now were going into cross species breeding,look at pythons,there has already been success crossing balls and angolans,plus others.i also came across an article on crossing retics with balls that appears too be a project in the works,how far will it go?as far as the dollar will let it.

 

[franeich]

I dont see the problem with these hybrids. What is the negative.

 

[Edna]

This has been part of my argument all along,the pet trade is a business fueled by the dollar as any other.it started with takind reps out of the wild and selling them its progressed too where anyone can breed and sell animals,when wild caught natural occuring animals became boring,or the availability outweighed the demand,genetic morps and mutations began too appear,there's money in it.now were going into cross species breeding,look at pythons,there has already been success crossing balls and angolans,plus others.i also came across an article on crossing retics with balls that appears too be a project in the works,how far will it go?as far as the dollar will let it.

A reintroduction
I did not like my first intro,so here's the real story.My name is john i live in the new jersey pine barrens,there's not a species of reptile in this state i have not caught or at least encountered.Anyway the reason I'm here,is for help on my newest project,leopard tortoise's,I currently have a python project going they will be ready too reproduce in october 2011.I started my leopard collection in september this year,the plan at start was too acquire 5 hatchling's,all with different genetic feature's,raise too sexual maturity,and see what i can produce,I knew then there would be alot of research involved,and since being here i learned i underestimated that so any and all help would be gteatly appreciated,the reason i chose 5 is too give a good chance of having opposite sexes. thanx john --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Having blind faith in anything can get you killed - Bruce Springsteen

You're saying that the pet trade is bad, but you are planning to let your pythons and later on your leopards reproduce? Is that consistent?