Leg scales

[PeanutbuttER]

This may come out a bit garbled. I've noticed that there seem to be at least 2 different types of red leg scales on redfoots. I'm trying to decide whether this is a genetic thing or if it's a result of husbandry. I don't have any pictures myself so the posted pictures were all just taken from google. I hope they're enough to give you an idea of what I'm talking about.

Some are smooth and seem to sit pretty flush with the leg. The size of the red scales matches pretty close to the size of the black scales. These look like if you to touch them they would feel smooth.

this one is maybe a little less smooth than the first.

Yet there are others whose legs appear to be rough. The red scales (and to a lesser extent the black scales) protrude a little from the leg. They look like if you touched their legs you might get scratched. The red scales sometimes appear tear drop shaped being narrowest at scale tips (can you see it in the pic?).

Has anyone else noticed this? Is it a difference in subspecies or is it something more along the lines of humidity/diet differences? If it's husbandry related then does that mean that keepers can change their husbandry to make it more smooth (or spiky if they wanted to I guess...) or is it like pyramiding where once it has occurred it just stays how it is.

 

[Kristina]

My baby has spiky scales on her legs while my bigger Redfoots do not. She was kept on the same reptile bark (crap) as is in the bottom photo you posted, for 2 1/2 years. I have a sneaking suspicion it has to do with humidity/husbandry. She seems to me much more hydrated, so i am hoping it is something that will change eventually.

 

[cdmay]

Excellent observation and question. I think kyryah is onto at least part of the answer. It does seem that many captive hatched and raised red foots that have not been kept in ideal situations often have 'rough' looking leg scales. Like kyryah, I believe this is most often the result of being kept too dry, but diet and other factors probably play a part as well.
But having said that you also have to consider that some populations of red foots commonly have more overlapping and pointed leg scales naturally. The red foots known as cherryheads often have pointed and fairly imbricated leg scales. The animals from Bolivia and Paraguay usually do too. But the strange thing is that you can also find individuals within these populations that have very round, flat and smooth front leg scutes. I don't know if they become that way as they age or if these populations are just variable.
Something else many people have noticed is that some populations have a much higher count of colored leg scales than others--or just more scales on their legs. Red foots from Surinam or Guyana can have a stunning number of bright red scutes on their legs and tail region. I've seen some over the years that have had nearly every scale colored in red.
On the other hand, it seems that most cherryhead have far fewer--but seemingly larger scutes on their front legs. They also generally have fewer scutes that are colored in red, peach or orange.
So while keeping the growing tortoises nice and humid and by not overfeeding them you will help prevent distortions as they grow, but you have to keep in mind that round or pointed leg scutes can occur as part of the animal's genetic makeup.

 

[PeanutbuttER]

Yes, I wanted to assume originally that it was a husbandry issue because almost every single redfoot I've seen at petco and such has had rough leg scales as opposed to smooth. But, I started to question that the other day when I was scroling through the currently available list on turtletary.com. Since then I've just been watching and paying attention to that in people's pics they post. Obviously RedfootNERD's are being kept well, and being "misted 'till they drip". Some of the hatchlings have red inverted raindrop scales that look a bit "spiky" and don't lay down flat. Since I doubt anyone keeps their hatchlings better than him, I figured there must be a genetic factor though I'm not so sure if it's related to a specific subspecies or if it's just an individual characteristic.

 

[Madkins007]

To add a slightly different direction to the discussion- coarse, heavy leg scales are also considered a sign of a more primitive tortoise species. Our beloved Red-foots are considered a more recent or 'evolved' species.

 

[PeanutbuttER]

I had a thought over the weekend. Does anybody have any pictures of full grown wild redfoot legs? I realized that I've never seen a wild full grown redfoot close enough to look at their legs. It would be interesting if the wild-type redfoots had large smooth scales while the CB redfoots raised in captivity showed the variable spectrum of smooth to rough.

 

[Itort]

This is a mature northern redfoot.

This is a mature southern (cherryhead) redfoot