is this the same turtle
- Thread starter mark1
- Start date
Yes. Same turtle. Nice new growth and much darker new growth, but same turtle.
this is probably the last time i remember actually seeing him ........
at some point he changed a lot without me noticing ........ he got really dark and got a lot of white ...... i couldn't really account for this one adult turtle , he has no dog chew injuries ,which meant he wasn't here when that incident happened , so i'm pretty happy he's still here , he was ground hatched and survived without help , i found him he was probably 3yrs old ....... probably 5yrs in this pic and i'd guess about 10yrs now , below ......
Hi. It's interesting to me that he now has the red eyes but didn't have them in the previous pictures. I've been trying to figure out how I had a female with red eyes for many years. ☺️
Oh yeah 🤣👍 congratulations 🤩
jeff kushner
Well-Known Member
How could you tell? Come on smart folks, share with the plebes!
I of course, was very wrong....hence the whole "how could you tell" thing......
LOL
I of course, was very wrong....hence the whole "how could you tell" thing......
LOL
i'd guess it's hormonal as to just how red they are , and the red eye is probably a sex inked trait ..... those two guesses would probably account for why females may have reddish eyes , but not the blood red of a male ..... i've seen a few really young turtles exhibit reddish eyes at a very young age , the degree of red has seemed to come and go , and those have turned out to be males...... the degree of red , seems to come with sexual maturitiy ....... females may have reddish eyes , but i've never seen one .... the disparity in the amount of females with red eyes compared to males would indicate there is something to , and a reason for , the "males have red eyes and females have brown eyes" thought .....
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i've seen this guys eyes appear pretty red , i'm pretty certain it'll be a he also....
i tried the carapace pattern also , i could pick out the similarities , but the turtle is so different appearing , i thought i may have been bias because i was hoping it was him .......
First report of rapid eye color change in a non-avian tetrapod
Eastern box turtle (Terrapene carolina carolina), the first non-avian tetrapod in which this capability has been reported. In male turtles, the iris changed from a pale yellow color (often characteristic of juveniles) to a bright red color (characteristic of mature males) in a period of <5 s. The nature of the color change is similar to that observed in some birds and suggests a common mechanism and/or adaptive role, which could be further explored in Eastern box turtles
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IF you compare the pattern on the scutes only looking at the part of the scute that was present on the young turtle picture, and ignore the new growth on the picture when older. Once laid down, that portion of each scute changes very little with age. Some Black pigment will start to come in with age, but the original pattern of black will always remain. Like a fingerprint the pattern on many turtles and tortoises are unique and good identifiers, but you need to only look at the part of the scute that was present in your earliest picture you are comparing. It drives Brenda crazy that I can identify easily most of our spotted turtles as they are all feeding by their spot pattern.
jeff kushner
Well-Known Member
I tried that exact thing with the wrong scute...I picked left-corner, front-large......seemed to work till I got to pics that didn't show that side....I will learn.
Going back and re-looking....if I choose center, #2 from the front, the commonality becomes much more apparent.....it's like my first wife said, I just need direction....
Thanks for taking the time, it is much appreciated guys!
I'm shocked, even after a life time of box turtles....that the black turtle is the same guy, he really darkened! I have had some pretty old guys, real grumpy looking......with the been there done that look, you all know what I mean and they were no where near so dark. He's pretty cool looking now!
sub 5 sec eye color change...hmmm, the mechanisms don't interest me since that's pure biomechanics but on what triggers???? WHY do they choose to do it???? Light filters for variance in color perception is my guess if not an alarm signal(predator or competitor)....but we'll see....guess I have some reading for later.
Going back and re-looking....if I choose center, #2 from the front, the commonality becomes much more apparent.....it's like my first wife said, I just need direction....
Thanks for taking the time, it is much appreciated guys!
I'm shocked, even after a life time of box turtles....that the black turtle is the same guy, he really darkened! I have had some pretty old guys, real grumpy looking......with the been there done that look, you all know what I mean and they were no where near so dark. He's pretty cool looking now!
sub 5 sec eye color change...hmmm, the mechanisms don't interest me since that's pure biomechanics but on what triggers???? WHY do they choose to do it???? Light filters for variance in color perception is my guess if not an alarm signal(predator or competitor)....but we'll see....guess I have some reading for later.
Yes but how did I have a female with red eyes? And unless a male can lay eggs she was a little girl. Everything I read said that she was a he but she was a she 🤣🐢🐢First report of rapid eye color change in a non-avian tetrapod
Eastern box turtle (Terrapene carolina carolina), the first non-avian tetrapod in which this capability has been reported. In male turtles, the iris changed from a pale yellow color (often characteristic of juveniles) to a bright red color (characteristic of mature males) in a period of <5 s. The nature of the color change is similar to that observed in some birds and suggests a common mechanism and/or adaptive role, which could be further explored in Eastern box turtles
your not the first person to tell me they had a red eyed female ..... i can just guess the degree of red was different , not this ruby neon red .... i have little doubt it's hormonal .......
i bred dogs for 30yrs .... some bitches obviously had more testoterone than others , i bred 8 generations of what was referred to as "butch bitches" it did lead to repro issues , but female ddb are more athletic than male ddb and these dogues were a little tricky to breed , but they were the best , and i seen them all... i don't doubt there are females of every species with above average testosterone ....... in nature i'd imagine they would not reproduce as successfully as females closer to the norm , nature tends prevent extremes , which would make them less common ..... some of my girls ,they all had a bit too much testosterone for a girl ....
i bred dogs for 30yrs .... some bitches obviously had more testoterone than others , i bred 8 generations of what was referred to as "butch bitches" it did lead to repro issues , but female ddb are more athletic than male ddb and these dogues were a little tricky to breed , but they were the best , and i seen them all... i don't doubt there are females of every species with above average testosterone ....... in nature i'd imagine they would not reproduce as successfully as females closer to the norm , nature tends prevent extremes , which would make them less common ..... some of my girls ,they all had a bit too much testosterone for a girl ....
jeff kushner
Well-Known Member
Wow, beautiful dog pics, when you decide to go, you go BIG! LOL
Cathie,
There is something to what Mark is saying, hormonal levels differ in all animals that employ them, even amongst same species.
My Kerry is a classic example......she is a Tomboy......she tells others that she's "half a girl" and she could beat most men in most sports when she was younger she still hangs pretty well. I took her to the batting cages to impress her when we met....and she scared me, that girl lit it up, ripping ropes to the fence!
Point is, slightly higher levels of testy can produce a girl with slightly more male characteristics.....quite possibly explaining the redder eyes. With this article on color changing though, seems to puts a wrench in my string theory....I just don't know.
I have vested interest as you know, Matilda's eyes seem to becoming redder....
Cathie,
There is something to what Mark is saying, hormonal levels differ in all animals that employ them, even amongst same species.
My Kerry is a classic example......she is a Tomboy......she tells others that she's "half a girl" and she could beat most men in most sports when she was younger she still hangs pretty well. I took her to the batting cages to impress her when we met....and she scared me, that girl lit it up, ripping ropes to the fence!
Point is, slightly higher levels of testy can produce a girl with slightly more male characteristics.....quite possibly explaining the redder eyes. With this article on color changing though, seems to puts a wrench in my string theory....I just don't know.
I have vested interest as you know, Matilda's eyes seem to becoming redder....
jeff kushner
Well-Known Member
I read the article.....observational documentation of the occurrences or changing eye color and hypotheses' but no concrete triggers identification.....nice though, that the research continues....
Yes there's all different types of color morphs and stuff in animals and we don't know what exactly causes all the little differences. I "read" that while the eyes are developing in the egg of a turtle along with the gender, warmth makes boys with red eyes in box turtles ... not so fast though... I had already named him Daisy May before I had read that boys have red eyes. ok he's a boy I'll have to think up a new name Then he laid eggs.😁 So I had to Google my head off. I read that she couldn't have had fertile eggs because of the length of time she was in captivity. After the eggs were gone I read that they can have fertile eggs even 3 years after being in captivity 😭 I still don't know what to think 🤔I did manage to find her a happy home.🤗
