Is my Sulcata sick?

[EmilyPond]

a quick easy cover is chicken wire. It can be folded over the top or make a frame and attach it. Make sure no dogs can get to them tho. the chicken wire will keep birds out.
yes, that is hot.. so only in the AM or later, or just the shade. no sun.
romaine is ok if it is fed with lot of other stuff. Not good on its own. Most pet stores
do not give out the best info.
What kind of substrate is in the tank? sand? Dirt? pellets?
They need humidity. moisture is VERY important to babies. Its something new, that we keepers are just learning about.
What is your FB name? lots of Emily ponds

My facebook is Emily Suzanne Pond. lol

and i can tell the feed store doesnt know crap!! haha and they dont have any dirt or anyting... i told my mom to put some in but AGAIN she goes by what the damn feed store says.. when i get there i will put something in the tank... how do you suppose i do it? all inside the tank? in two corners? they live in little card board houses that they can access easily.. is that ok? do we put dirt INSIDE the houses? HELP!!! haha

 

[Laura]

she is either too cold, or failing.
If she drinks in the soak, yes she will get some nutrients.. but it sounds bad. Be prepared to explain to your sister...
IF that happens. Dont run out and get a replacement right away. Find out what is wrong, help the other one first.

 

[October]

It could be quite a few things. A not-so-great diet, lack of calcium, lack of sun or D3 which is vital for their systems to process the calcium, bad substrate, temps are too hot or too cold, no water (they should be soaked about every day), constipation from eating substrate, etc. It's really hard to say without knowing the exact setup they are in.

A soak with baby food and/or liquid calcium, and some sun might perk them up some, but it doesn't fix what caused it in the first place. That's what we need to figure out and fix.

 

[EmilyPond]

I'm sorry about the death in the family.

Building an outside enclosure is as easy as you make it. Check this out: http://www.tortoiseforum.org/Thread...Enclosure?highlight=kiddie+pool#axzz1QL5M7U1f

The only difference between Tom's setup and one in AZ, is it will get much much too hot. So again, early morning and late evenings. They don't need direct, beating-down sun to get the UVB they need.

Did your mom mention if their shells felt soft, at all?

---

You do need to contact your mom and get started on some treatment for these guys soon though. A baby food soak and some sun could hopefully be helpful until you get there.

What part of AZ? I'm in San Tan Valley.

My family lives in the Tonopah, AZ area Im not sure where San Tan Valley is.. lol

East of Queen Creek. You are way way west of PHX and I'm way way east.

---

Its alright but thank you! it was my dads aunt and her husband has alzheimer's and they are both very old and it just wore her out.. its very sad but we think it was a good time for her. She died in her sleep, so we hope she had no pain!

and no the shells are not soft.. the bottom is a little bit but i thought that was normal. the top shell is hard.

and that is cool! my family is not that far from cali so its pretty cool haha though we NEVER go! hahah!

---

Hi Emily:

Welcome to the forum!!

Thanks! Im so glad I looked up our little babies or I would have never found this place! I am learning SOO much about how to help them and keep them healthy and how to help the littlest turtle healthy again!

---

she is either too cold, or failing.
If she drinks in the soak, yes she will get some nutrients.. but it sounds bad. Be prepared to explain to your sister...
IF that happens. Dont run out and get a replacement right away. Find out what is wrong, help the other one first.

But the other one is fine... Theo eats and drinks and walks and seems just fine.. its just Alvina that is sick... and no my parents wouldnt get another one i think.. im not sure... i really hope we can make her better!!!

---

It could be quite a few things. A not-so-great diet, lack of calcium, lack of sun or D3 which is vital for their systems to process the calcium, bad substrate, temps are too hot or too cold, no water (they should be soaked about every day), constipation from eating substrate, etc. It's really hard to say without knowing the exact setup they are in.

A soak with baby food and/or liquid calcium, and some sun might perk them up some, but it doesn't fix what caused it in the first place. That's what we need to figure out and fix.

yeah they hardly get ANY sunlight.. so i will change that as soon as i can get my mom on the phone!

 

[October]

and i can tell the feed store doesnt know crap!! haha and they dont have any dirt or anyting... i told my mom to put some in but AGAIN she goes by what the damn feed store says.. when i get there i will put something in the tank... how do you suppose i do it? all inside the tank? in two corners? they live in little card board houses that they can access easily.. is that ok? do we put dirt INSIDE the houses? HELP!!! haha

That's the problem with feed or pet stores. Either they don't know any better or don't care.

Check out the 2 links I posted about enclosures. They don't need to walk on glass so dirt everywhere. They like to burrow. Give them as mush dirt as you want. The cardboard hides are fine, hides can be anything, torts don't care. Just preferably dark and not too big, they need to feel cozy. Flower pots, old Tupperware with holes cut in the side. I like to hit up goodwill and look for saucers (for food and water) and planters, vases, baskets, etc for them to hide in.

 

[Laura]

when you say they are not on anything.. is it just a slippery tank bottom?
Look up those links and how to raise sulcatas and print it out and take to your mom.
There is A LOT of info and it can be very overwhelming to get it all at once.
Being in Arizona... you probably, or your neighbors, have cactus growing.
There is one that has pads and very little thorns. that is what you want.
Sometimes to entice a baby to eat, you need color. Try Butternut squash. You can find it
in the frozen veggie section. diced. stay away from fruit. You can also try just a little bit of diced or shredded carrot. or
yam. The yellow dandilion flowers are usually a great hit with most.

 

[EmilyPond]

and i can tell the feed store doesnt know crap!! haha and they dont have any dirt or anyting... i told my mom to put some in but AGAIN she goes by what the damn feed store says.. when i get there i will put something in the tank... how do you suppose i do it? all inside the tank? in two corners? they live in little card board houses that they can access easily.. is that ok? do we put dirt INSIDE the houses? HELP!!! haha

That's the problem with feed or pet stores. Either they don't know any better or don't care.

Check out the 2 links I posted about enclosures. They don't need to walk on glass so dirt everywhere. They like to burrow. Give them as mush dirt as you want. The cardboard hides are fine, hides can be anything, torts don't care. Just preferably dark and not too big, they need to feel cozy. Flower pots, old Tupperware with holes cut in the side. I like to hit up goodwill and look for saucers (for food and water) and planters, vases, baskets, etc for them to hide in.

Yeah! we just take cracker boxes and stuff like that and cut off the top tabs to make a big opening and put them in there.. the funny thing is, is they have their own homes, and one day Theo went into Alvinas box... Well my mom heard alot of squeaking going on and she looked down and Alvina was practically CHASING Alvin out of her box! My mom said it was soo funny! She told him what for!! It was cute! Just thought i would share that little story with you guys to get a few laughs! lol

and yes i will get alot of dirt in their home. does it have to be a certain kind? like not rocky, more soft dirt, what? and does the dirt help keep the turtles home warm.. there is a cage covering over their reptile aquarium and its like a screen and the lamps (2 of them) sit on top of that directing its lights down. is that ok??

---

when you say they are not on anything.. is it just a slippery tank bottom?
Look up those links and how to raise sulcatas and print it out and take to your mom.
There is A LOT of info and it can be very overwhelming to get it all at once.
Being in Arizona... you probably, or your neighbors, have cactus growing.
There is one that has pads and very little thorns. that is what you want.
Sometimes to entice a baby to eat, you need color. Try Butternut squash. You can find it
in the frozen veggie section. diced. stay away from fruit. You can also try just a little bit of diced or shredded carrot. or
yam. The yellow dandilion flowers are usually a great hit with most.

ok ya i will do that! i have to find them again haha but i will print those out! should i scrape the thorns off the cactus?? i think it might hurt them wont it??

 

[Yvonne G]

Hi Emily:

Since your mom isn't computer literate, and stories sometimes get lost in the translation, I've sent you an email into which I copied Tom's care sheet for sulcata babies. Please print it out and give it to your mother.

 

[EmilyPond]

Hi Emily:

Since your mom isn't computer literate, and stories sometimes get lost in the translation, I've sent you an email into which I copied Tom's care sheet for sulcata babies. Please print it out and give it to your mother.

ok! if you want my real email its [email protected]
i will print it out deff. and im copying and paisting some of what people are telling me on here into a doccument, every post a diff color, so she can see first hand what ppl are saying..

 

[October]

Dirt is dirt to a tort. A some point they will be big enough to live outside 24/7 and it wont matter. Just make sure it's clean. Buying it can be safer than using some from the yard, but that is fine too if you are certain. For the cactus, I usually cut off the spines. I just lay the knifr flat on the cactus paid and kind of filet the raised thorn bumps off.

Did you say the torts were the same age, or was one much younger?

 

[EmilyPond]

It could be quite a few things. A not-so-great diet, lack of calcium, lack of sun or D3 which is vital for their systems to process the calcium, bad substrate, temps are too hot or too cold, no water (they should be soaked about every day), constipation from eating substrate, etc. It's really hard to say without knowing the exact setup they are in.

A soak with baby food and/or liquid calcium, and some sun might perk them up some, but it doesn't fix what caused it in the first place. That's what we need to figure out and fix.

why cant they have fruit? my mom watched a documentary about tortoises and the people at the tortoise center were feeding them fruit, but they were bigger than ours.. like adults.. is it only babies that cant have fruit? my mom feeds the babies strawberries and bananas and watermellon and they LOVE It! is that bad?

---

It could be quite a few things. A not-so-great diet, lack of calcium, lack of sun or D3 which is vital for their systems to process the calcium, bad substrate, temps are too hot or too cold, no water (they should be soaked about every day), constipation from eating substrate, etc. It's really hard to say without knowing the exact setup they are in.

A soak with baby food and/or liquid calcium, and some sun might perk them up some, but it doesn't fix what caused it in the first place. That's what we need to figure out and fix.

why cant they have fruit? my mom watched a documentary about tortoises and the people at the tortoise center were feeding them fruit, but they were bigger than ours.. like adults.. is it only babies that cant have fruit? my mom feeds the babies strawberries and bananas and watermellon and they LOVE It! is that bad?

and my mom was also wondering what age or size are they before you can determine the sex?

---

It could be quite a few things. A not-so-great diet, lack of calcium, lack of sun or D3 which is vital for their systems to process the calcium, bad substrate, temps are too hot or too cold, no water (they should be soaked about every day), constipation from eating substrate, etc. It's really hard to say without knowing the exact setup they are in.

A soak with baby food and/or liquid calcium, and some sun might perk them up some, but it doesn't fix what caused it in the first place. That's what we need to figure out and fix.

if i mix powdered calcium with the water could that substitue for liquid calcium??

 

[ascott]

Welcome Emily! Wow, you have alot going on

I just was reading back and forth the posts and have this nagging question so I thought I would chime in (hope no one minds):

you said that Theo went into Alvinas hide and your mother heard a ruckus and Theo came running out? My first thought was to ask is there a reason that you house them together? If Theo is the "healthier" of the two and Alvina is the "ill" one? I would suggest that you first separate them, this is the usual thing to do when there is a potential health issue? Also, I have had first hand experience with owning 4 male Cal Desert Tortoise and three of the four ABSOLUTELY have mental bullying skills that are so very suttle, that can cause a tortoise to retreat and be "anti-social" so to speak...also natural sun is SO SO very important, even if your mother just sits outside with them each (not at the same time, unless she sets up a pen to contain them) in the sun for like 15 minutes a couple times a day and do the soaks as previously outlined I bet you will see a great improvement...but tortoises NEED to be "emotionally" healthy as well and I have seen what can happen to a tortoise that has been mentally bullied, it can have a snowball affect...after all, the two tortoises you have may both be the same sex, maybe males, and trust me, they know long before we ever can tell what sex they are....

I wish you the very best with these little guys....

 

[EmilyPond]

Welcome Emily! Wow, you have alot going on

I just was reading back and forth the posts and have this nagging question so I thought I would chime in (hope no one minds):

you said that Theo went into Alvinas hide and your mother heard a ruckus and Theo came running out? My first thought was to ask is there a reason that you house them together? If Theo is the "healthier" of the two and Alvina is the "ill" one? I would suggest that you first separate them, this is the usual thing to do when there is a potential health issue? Also, I have had first hand experience with owning 4 male Cal Desert Tortoise and three of the four ABSOLUTELY have mental bullying skills that are so very suttle, that can cause a tortoise to retreat and be "anti-social" so to speak...also natural sun is SO SO very important, even if your mother just sits outside with them each (not at the same time, unless she sets up a pen to contain them) in the sun for like 15 minutes a couple times a day and do the soaks as previously outlined I bet you will see a great improvement...but tortoises NEED to be "emotionally" healthy as well and I have seen what can happen to a tortoise that has been mentally bullied, it can have a snowball affect...after all, the two tortoises you have may both be the same sex, maybe males, and trust me, they know long before we ever can tell what sex they are....

I wish you the very best with these little guys....

Thanks for your post and I doubt ANYONE would mind another input!!

I was wondering though.. People said feeding Carrots would be good for the babies.. What about cooked carrots? My mom buys baby carrots and has been cooking them, steaming them probably, because she thinks they are too hard for the babies and they dont eat them but they eat the cooked ones.. are cooked carrots ok?? Your imput on everything is MUCH apreciated!

 

[October]

What torts can and shouldn't eat vary greatly. It basically boils down to where they evolved from. Sulcatas are from Africa and naturally wont see much fruit. If they do it's few and far between. Prickly pear fruit is a great occasional treat for them. But think if it like cheesecake. We all love cheesecake, but eating cheesecake a couple times a day would be very bad for us. Humans act different with food, but when we eat junk there's usually that nagging feeling of "I should have a salad instead". Torts that come from tropical or foresty places can tolerate fruit, and even bugs sometimes, but Sulcatas are not biologically able to handle the fructose very well.

Sex becomes apparent with size, not age. If they grow really fast, it can be a couple years. If you have a slow grower, it could be 10 years. You can post pics and we can guess, but they're just guesses.

I'm not sure if powdered calcium in water would work, but couldn't hurt. Scraping that cuddle bone into the water would be similar.

I do agree about bullying. If they are pretty different in size, they should be separated. And if possible, isolate the sick guy. Even just a piece of cardboard down the middle, if that's the best you can do. 1 tort is okay, 3 or more torts do okay, but 2 has a tendency to cause issues. I have 2 currently, don't know what I was thinking, but I hope to get another one soon just to stay away from those issues. I think I see it happening already.

---

She can grate carrots and that would be fine. Cooked is probably fine too, when steaming you don't lose a lot of nutrients and some food is better than nothing.

Another thought is premade tort food. There are 3 products that are preferred here. Most of the stuff you find in pet stores is garbage and shouldn't be feed.
Mazuri, Red Tort Sticks (Marion zoological red tort sticks), and ZooMed Natural Grassland Tortoise food. The red stuff is only sold by our member Coastal, but in the marketplace there are several members who sell Mazuri and the ZooMed stuff. These aren't meant to replace fresh raw weeds and greens, but more to ensure they're getting a good variety. They are fairly inexpensive to just buy a pound to see if your torts will eat it.

 

[ascott]

My opinion on cooking/steaming vegetables is that it is not necessary and here is why:

In the wild there are no chefs for them, and I mean that not in a smarty pants way--really.. I have seen the power, even babies, that tortoises have---relative to their size that is, and they should not have any problem eating raw vegetables. If your tortoise is small then kinda size the vegetables ---in reptiles in general, a rule is to feed in proportion to their head size....if you cut the vegetable small and thin and include with a "salad" they will take in all the good stuff.....really.

However, tortoises can also become picky, so if your mother is making life easy for them by mushing up the food, they will certainly go for the easy meal...problem is that over a period of time their beaks will begin to get overgrown, they will become too finicky and that leads to headache for you and stress for them if it does not continue....as always, this is strictly my opinion

 

[EmilyPond]

What torts can and shouldn't eat vary greatly. It basically boils down to where they evolved from. Sulcatas are from Africa and naturally wont see much fruit. If they do it's few and far between. Prickly pear fruit is a great occasional treat for them. But think if it like cheesecake. We all love cheesecake, but eating cheesecake a couple times a day would be very bad for us. Humans act different with food, but when we eat junk there's usually that nagging feeling of "I should have a salad instead". Torts that come from tropical or foresty places can tolerate fruit, and even bugs sometimes, but Sulcatas are not biologically able to handle the fructose very well.

Sex becomes apparent with size, not age. If they grow really fast, it can be a couple years. If you have a slow grower, it could be 10 years. You can post pics and we can guess, but they're just guesses.

I'm not sure if powdered calcium in water would work, but couldn't hurt. Scraping that cuddle bone into the water would be similar.

I do agree about bullying. If they are pretty different in size, they should be separated. And if possible, isolate the sick guy. Even just a piece of cardboard down the middle, if that's the best you can do. 1 tort is okay, 3 or more torts do okay, but 2 has a tendency to cause issues. I have 2 currently, don't know what I was thinking, but I hope to get another one soon just to stay away from those issues. I think I see it happening already.

---

She can grate carrots and that would be fine. Cooked is probably fine too, when steaming you don't lose a lot of nutrients and some food is better than nothing.

Another thought is premade tort food. There are 3 products that are preferred here. Most of the stuff you find in pet stores is garbage and shouldn't be feed.
Mazuri, Red Tort Sticks (Marion zoological red tort sticks), and ZooMed Natural Grassland Tortoise food. The red stuff is only sold by our member Coastal, but in the marketplace there are several members who sell Mazuri and the ZooMed stuff. These aren't meant to replace fresh raw weeds and greens, but more to ensure they're getting a good variety. They are fairly inexpensive to just buy a pound to see if your torts will eat it.

---

why are 2 torts a problem but 3 arent? :/ and i think what my mom has is a cuddle bone but my mom bought it because Pets Mart said that it helps shapen their beaks and sharpen them so im not sure if its a calcium thing or not.. my mom threw way the box lol!!

 

[October]

Ya know, I'm not really sure why 3 is not a issue. Many animals are like that, fish especially. I'm wondering if they pick up a herd mentality and once dominance is determined, there's no more issues. But with 2 it's 1 on 1, and there's always a struggle? Dunno really.

Cuddle bones are calcium. Birds do use them to sharpen talons and beaks, but I don't think it works like that with torts. It grinds down their beak and keeps it from getting overgrown if they eat it. Some will, some wont. Some wont touch it for months and then gobble it down in a week. But it is good to have in the tank. Scraping it over food, or into their water wont hurt anything and could possibly help. They're around $1 a piece so no big deal if it gets all used up.

 

[EmilyPond]

My opinion on cooking/steaming vegetables is that it is not necessary and here is why:

In the wild there are no chefs for them, and I mean that not in a smarty pants way--really.. I have seen the power, even babies, that tortoises have---relative to their size that is, and they should not have any problem eating raw vegetables. If your tortoise is small then kinda size the vegetables ---in reptiles in general, a rule is to feed in proportion to their head size....if you cut the vegetable small and thin and include with a "salad" they will take in all the good stuff.....really.

However, tortoises can also become picky, so if your mother is making life easy for them by mushing up the food, they will certainly go for the easy meal...problem is that over a period of time their beaks will begin to get overgrown, they will become too finicky and that leads to headache for you and stress for them if it does not continue....as always, this is strictly my opinion

awesome! thanks! and all opinions are welcome!!

 

[October]

why cant they have fruit? my mom watched a documentary about tortoises and the people at the tortoise center were feeding them fruit, but they were bigger than ours.. like adults.. is it only babies that cant have fruit? my mom feeds the babies strawberries and bananas and watermellon and they LOVE It! is that bad?

---

---

Sulcatas are the 3rd largest tort. The first two are Aldabras and Galapagos torts. These are both tropical torts and fruit is a part of the essential diet for them. Maybe that's what she saw?

 

[EmilyPond]

why cant they have fruit? my mom watched a documentary about tortoises and the people at the tortoise center were feeding them fruit, but they were bigger than ours.. like adults.. is it only babies that cant have fruit? my mom feeds the babies strawberries and bananas and watermellon and they LOVE It! is that bad?

---

---

Sulcatas are the 3rd largest tort. The first two are Aldabras and Galapagos torts. These are both tropical torts and fruit is a part of the essential diet for them. Maybe that's what she saw?

---

I will be sure to ask her tomorrow and get back at you about that! haha but thanks for the imput!! Much apreciated!!