How to create bio active substrate

[Thalatte]

Mealworms seem to reproduce quickly but you can add more if you wish.

 

[Edna]

Edna,

what type of tort/turtle do you keep with bio active substrate?

what do you keep in there other than nightcrawlers?

thanks

I have four young adult Hermanns in two large (36x72) Vision tubs, the torts having access to both tubs via a ramp. The substrate in the cooler, planted tub is 8 inches of organic garden soil with some cypress mulch as a bottom layer. The substrate in the warmer tub is 6 inches of 50/50 soil and mulch, with some areas of play sand. Both tubs contain nightcrawlers and pill bugs. The pill bugs are more obvious in the warmer tub. The nightcrawlers can be seen in the cooler tub, engaging in "worm congress" on the surface when the lights come on. I haven't seen any little worm babies, but I don't disturb the soil unless I'm adding a new plant, and then minimally. There are other types of bugs in there as well, even some tiny spiders, but I have not added these or identified them. I have not seen slugs or flat snails in this enclosure, but they could be in there. Slugs can travel in on houseplants, and flat snails can be in plants or lettuces.

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I need to find some pill bugs. Going to start with 20 night crawlers in my tortoise enclosure and idk how many mealworms.

I started out looking for pill bugs under rocks and could never find them in my yard. When I finally found some it was under bag of leaves. Once I figured out where to look it was easy to gather a couple of dozen. Ironically, in the enclosure the one place I can reliably find them is under the feeding rock

 

[MasterOogway]

I would love to see a picture of your set up the of the vision tubs! I am enjoying this thread too

 

[Levi the Leopard]

thanks for sharing edna!

i had fun watching my 2 little pill bugs crawl around while my tort was up on the basking rock. then i watched the worm wriggle into the soil by the hide (flower pot on its side)

we'll see how this goes so far.. i probably will add more. but i wanted to start with few numbers in case i chickened out and wanted to remove them. lol.

 

[stasisdc5]

my set up consists of a 1" layer of lava rock. then 4-5" inches of a mixture of garden soil, play sand, and top soil.

I also set up a tube in one corner of my tank that sticks out of the substrate and leads down into the lava rock.

I would then attach a funnel to the tube to pour water through the tube. the water line should be right below where the substrate and lava rock meet. water will keep the bottom layer of the substrate moist.

I bought red worms from a bait shop and searched under rocks and logs in my parent's yard for pill bugs.

 

[MasterOogway]

Thanks for sharing your set up.this is great .

 

[Levi the Leopard]

my set up consists of a 1" layer of lava rock. then 4-5" inches of a mixture of garden soil, play sand, and top soil.

I also set up a tube in one corner of my tank that sticks out of the substrate and leads down into the lava rock.

I would then attach a funnel to the tube to pour water through the tube. the water line should be right below where the substrate and lava rock meet. water will keep the bottom layer of the substrate moist.

interesting... thanks for sharing that idea

what type of tortoise do you keep in this set up?

how long have you had the worms and pill bugs in the substrate? do you find them to be beneficial??

 

[theTurtleRoom]

There are a lot of beneficial insects available at neherpetoculture.com.

 

[MasterOogway]

How do you keep the tank warm? Do you just use heating lights from above? I have a baby leopard tortoise that is tiny. I am ready to go for this set up but I am afraid of keeping him warm since he needs to stay warm being so young. I found a tank that is 72''Lx 19''W x 23" high I like that it is high to add the dirt. I just don't know if this set up would work for a baby Leo. The tank does come with a plexiglass lid with holes & a circle cut out for the light to help with humidity . Also will the uv lights help the plants to? I dont have a green thumb

 

[stasisdc5]

interesting... thanks for sharing that idea

what type of tortoise do you keep in this set up?

how long have you had the worms and pill bugs in the substrate? do you find them to be beneficial??

I have a hermann's.

probably had them in for about 3 months now.

I only see 2 benefits: soil becomes perfect for plants and I have a clean up crew that eats the poop and leftover greens that aren't eaten or are too small that I individually have to pick them up to clean.

a self maintained environment so to speak.

 

[Thalatte]

How do you keep the tank warm? Do you just use heating lights from above? I have a baby leopard tortoise that is tiny. I am ready to go for this set up but I am afraid of keeping him warm since he needs to stay warm being so young. I found a tank that is 72''Lx 19''W x 23" high I like that it is high to add the dirt. I just don't know if this set up would work for a baby Leo. The tank does come with a plexiglass lid with holes & a circle cut out for the light to help with humidity . Also will the uv lights help the plants to? I dont have a green thumb

Yep all I use is the lights. With the right types of lights and wattage he will be warm enough. That cage does sound awesome you need to snatch it up. Also 6-10 inches of substrate is plenty. Yes the UVB will help plants grow and it allows you to use outdoor species of plants which is great.
I don't have a green thumb either but so far the only plants I have been able to grow are the ones in my cages. Even the "delicate" plants are thriving.


I keep box turtles, wood turtle, desert tortoise, (other reptiles) bearded dragons, Chinese water dragon, and fire belly toads on bios give substrate. I am working on converting the sulcatas over but I am trying for a more "Saharan" look so its hard to find the right dirt.

 

[Edna]

How do you keep the tank warm? Do you just use heating lights from above? I have a baby leopard tortoise that is tiny. I am ready to go for this set up but I am afraid of keeping him warm since he needs to stay warm being so young. I found a tank that is 72''Lx 19''W x 23" high I like that it is high to add the dirt. I just don't know if this set up would work for a baby Leo. The tank does come with a plexiglass lid with holes & a circle cut out for the light to help with humidity . Also will the uv lights help the plants to? I dont have a green thumb

Yep all I use is the lights. With the right types of lights and wattage he will be warm enough. That cage does sound awesome you need to snatch it up. Also 6-10 inches of substrate is plenty. Yes the UVB will help plants grow and it allows you to use outdoor species of plants which is great.
I don't have a green thumb either but so far the only plants I have been able to grow are the ones in my cages. Even the "delicate" plants are thriving.


I keep box turtles, wood turtle, desert tortoise, (other reptiles) bearded dragons, Chinese water dragon, and fire belly toads on bios give substrate. I am working on converting the sulcatas over but I am trying for a more "Saharan" look so its hard to find the right dirt.

Yes, my first bioactive enclosure was for my little leopard torts. It was semi-enclosed as you describe. I didn't have a lot of depth for a really deep substrate, but made sure some areas at least were deeper. In that warm and humid environment I had a thriving population of slugs and worms, and the leos would snack on both. The side walls were semi-transparent and I could usually see worm trails under the soil. THE COOLEST THING EVER was seeing little strips of lettuce or blades of grass pulled into those holes. I kinda like worms and consider them my pets, along with the torts

 

[MasterOogway]

Thanks !! You guys got me do excited to give this a try. My hubby just picked up the tank he said it is huge. I can't wait to get started Now to research what plants to plant!

 

[MasterOogway]

I am working on Master Oogway little bio active winter world. I just came across in my journey of searching past posts that some members used hermit crabs as clean up crews and even some with success who have hatchling leos. I think I am going to try it after everything is up and active.

 

[MasterOogway]

my set up consists of a 1" layer of lava rock. then 4-5" inches of a mixture of garden soil, play sand, and top soil.

I also set up a tube in one corner of my tank that sticks out of the substrate and leads down into the lava rock.

I would then attach a funnel to the tube to pour water through the tube. the water line should be right below where the substrate and lava rock meet. water will keep the bottom layer of the substrate moist.

I bought red worms from a bait shop and searched under rocks and logs in my parent's yard for pill bugs.

Well I took your advice. The one thing I am learning as I am working to get this all set up is if you live in the north the winter is not the best time to do a project like this. I had to purchase frozen top soil from Home Depot then let it thaw out. You can't just go out & dig it up.I can't get all the worms & bugs from outside plus since its the middle of winter the pet stores only have mealworms. I was told by a pet store if you order online the most likely will die. The good news is PA crazy weather so we are going to go from the single digits to the mid-fifties on Tuesday. So I am hoping to find something :shy:
The good news is I have the lava rocks, soil, new hide, & tube all in my 150 gallon tank ready to go. I have planted grazing tortoise seeds & getting plants today or tomorrow. Without the plants and just dirt well watered it is keeping the humidity at 80 so I am so happy. It was only watered once in the am.:shy: Now the light have not been added so we will see how the humidity will hold with the plants & lights.
I can't wait unit its all set up. I am planning on introducing Master Oogway to his new tank Tuesday.

 

[Rover15]

This thread is awesome just read the whole thing I was about to start my own thread I have so many questions some answered others have now entered my head after reading post

Before my questions, I house a yellow foot that is about 4" and 2 baby eastern box turtles 1" each I definitely don't want to add meal worms but come spring I'll look for pill bugs for sure.

Can you use a mix of red wigglers and night crawlers on their own? Or do you need to add bugs?

Can you have a bioactive substrate WITHOUT soil? Example coco fiber mixed with moss on side and then moss on its own for the other side? I only ask because I am finding it extremely hard to find "clean" soil this time of year everything has the white bits in it.

What do herman crabs eat? Are they really safe to be housed with my tortoise?

What is the min depth for the substrate to work well? I plan on going 6" deep for. My yellow foot but have only done 2-3" with the baby EBT

This isn't a question but more a recap the only "con" I've herd is the potential danger from meal worms is this right or are there other concurns not mentioned?

Last question what is a gnat? I think that was a con as well :S

 

[Thalatte]

Most substrates including coco fiber have teeny tiny whit bugs in them, some people call them gnats though they are really wood mites. They aren't harmful to animals just annoying.
I don't think it will work with coco fiber by I have never tried it. I use sphagnum peat moss. It has the same consistency as dirt but its organic and you can plant things in it.
4in is a good minimum depth just so that it retains humidity, but you can do less if you want. I see no reason to though. My baby box turtles have about 6-7 in of substrate and they like it for burrowing.
I don't really count this as a risk but some don't use bioactive substrate with strict herbivores as they are afraid they will ingest the bugs. But it is no different than if they were wild so I don't see the problem.
Worms will take care of plant matter but adding bugs means the feces and dead bugs will be taken care of as well.

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Oh and if you are using the stringy moss that definitely won't work for worms.
Gnats: adding the bugs keeps the gnat population down so its a pro.

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Oh hermit crabs eat whatever they can find. Decaying wood, plants, fruits, feces. They aren't fussy eaters. It would be sad for your tort though you would need to take care with adding various things to the enclosure to make the hermits happy and healthy.

 

[Rover15]

Most substrates including coco fiber have teeny tiny whit bugs in them, some people call them gnats though they are really wood mites. They aren't harmful to animals just annoying.
I don't think it will work with coco fiber by I have never tried it. I use sphagnum peat moss. It has the same consistency as dirt but its organic and you can plant things in it.
4in is a good minimum depth just so that it retains humidity, but you can do less if you want. I see no reason to though. My baby box turtles have about 6-7 in of substrate and they like it for burrowing.
I don't really count this as a risk but some don't use bioactive substrate with strict herbivores as they are afraid they will ingest the bugs. But it is no different than if they were wild so I don't see the problem.
Worms will take care of plant matter but adding bugs means the feces and dead bugs will be taken care of as well.

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Oh and if you are using the stringy moss that definitely won't work for worms.
Gnats: adding the bugs keeps the gnat population down so its a pro.

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I've seen the little white bugs but have read they do no harm so I let them be. Because of how small my box turtles are that was the reasons I didn't do 6" in substrate, however I'm redoing their enclosure to a larger one either a plastic tub 26"x16"x22"H or once I move my yellow foot into her tortoise table I might move them into her current 36"Lx18"Wx15"H.

Is peamoss and mulch mix work? And then I would have moss in their hids and in other area's? I'm trying to find alturnitives to soil if icant find clean soil.

Also you said that the worms will take care of. Plant matter do you mean the left over food?

 

[mike taylor]

Does this type of set up have a smell to it do you have problems with the bugs getting out of the enclosure do you keep this in your house or a outdoor shed i like my reptiles but i hate bugs of any type i can catch snakes frogs alligators but you put a nasty bug on me and instant little girl thats funny but true but i can handle the bugs in the enclosure but not running around my house

 

[RedFootMomma]

I use a product called "Forest Magic"- essentially mulch, but more coarse, purchased from a local nursery. I would be careful buying from Home Depot, many soils have added fertilizers, etc that could be harmful to torts. We regularly buy night crawlers from a gas station that has a bait fridge. I dig them in, otherwise Carlos, our red foot, snaps them right up. We have a colony of pill bugs living under the water bowl. I see Carlos "hunting" when we change out his water. We had some gnats, but a small spider moved in & took care of that problem. I grow a variety of lettuces in peat pots then transplant. They get chomped to the ground as fast as I can sprout them! There is very little smell (it's an earthy smell I like, not like a stinky cat box) & I haven't had any trouble with escaping bugs : ) I HIGHLY recommend a bio active substrate, it makes me feel better about keeping my tort in captivity : ) Good luck!