General tortoise care

[NickPoole]

My copy of the "The Tortoise Trust Guide to Tortoises and Turtles" arrived yesterday and after reading through it, and the Mediterranean tortoise care booklet, I've found that almost none of my questions have been answered. Although both the book and the booklet go into detail about the importance of getting the care right, neither actually state how to care for a tortoise.

So, where is all the general information? Just to give an idea of the sort of details I'm looking for, I'm still trying to learn what what being an owner of a tortoise entails: I already know that Hermann tortoises (as well as most other species) should be bathed regularly for various reasons, but how often does the substrate need changing and how much of it should be changed?

 

[Yvonne G]

If you think your tortoise isn't getting enough water on his own, then you could soak him for 15 minutes or so. If its a baby, an every day soak is good, and if adult, once a week is good. The reason I like to soak babies is because we have them on "slow cook" with all the lights and heaters and they dry out very quickly because they are so small.

Changing the substrate depends upon what kind you are using. I don't use the aspen, and that seems to be the substrate of choice for the Hermann's, but I would think you don't have to change the substrate very often. You can usually just pick out any debris. If you think the substrate is getting dirty, just change it...no big deal. But if you keep it picked, you should be able to go a couple months or more. (Unless it starts to stink)

The books are great to get you started in the education department, but the forums are wonderful for you to get answers from folks who have first hand experience. So Ask Away!!

Yvonne

 

[NickPoole]

Hi Yvonne. Thanks for the quick reply. I'm still in the process of learning as much as I can before finding a local breeder.

I guess the age of the tortoise would explain why some people recommend bathing once or twice a day whilst others say once a week; the bigger/older they are the more they can look after themselves/don't dehydrate so quickly?

So far the majority of what I've read recommends a soil/sand mix. How exactly do you tell if the substrate is dirty? I guess smell is an indicator, or the colour in the case of aspen?

Would you mind telling me your routine please? It's very possible that there are essential parts of caring for tortoises that I still haven't considered. On the other hand I may just be overestimating how much work keeping tortoises actually is, but I don't want to make an assumptions which could lead to mistakes.

 

[Yvonne G]

Everything depends upon what kind of tortoise you are thinking about getting. The desert-types take one kind of substrate, the jungle-type take another, etc. So, for the sake of argument, let's say you want to know about Russian tortoises. First and foremost, I believe they should be kept outside. If you don't allow them to hibernate and have to set them up indoors for the winter, then here's how I would do that: For one tortoise I would use an under-the-bed plastic storage container, or a Christmas Tree tote. I would put a thick layer (about 5") of cypress mulch in the bottom. I pour a pitcherfull of water on the substrate and mix it all around with my hands. Next I would add two hiding places, one at each end of the habitat. To make it easy on the eyes, I would buy several little succulents in the small 2" pots and plant them, pots and all, in the substrate all around the habitat. Next I would put up two clamp light fixtures. One would hold a regular 75 watt incandescent bulb and the other would hold hold a 75 watt black bulb. I turn on the white bulb from 6am to 8pm and then the black bulb from 8pm to 6am. The lights quickly dry out the top layer of the substrate, leaving it slightly damp underneath. I don't use the expensive UVB bulbs because all of my tortoises get some outside time, but if you don't plan for your tortoise to be outside, you MUST buy the UVB bulb. The tortoise HAS TO HAVE vitamin D to make his calcium work, and he gets Vit.D either from the sun or from the UVB bulb. If the habitat isn't staying warm enough (appx. 75-85 on the warm end and appx. 70-75 on the cool end) I would cover or partially cover the whole thing with aluminum foil. Over the lights and everything. My cypress mulch never seems to be dirty, because as the tortoises poop or spill their food, I pick it out. If they pee in the substrate that's just normal and doesn't really make it dirty.

The very best way and the easiest way to care for a tortoise is to set him up outside in a natural environment. That is, a desert-like habitat for the desert species, a forest-like habitat for the forest dwellers, etc. Outside you don't have to worry about if your substrate is dirty, because its a large habitat and its natural, with bugs and birds keeping it clean for you. The only work involved with an outdoor habitat is making sure the fencing stays secure, feeding and watering and enjoying.

Yvonne

 

[NickPoole]

Thank you, that's exactly what I wanted to know. I'm looking into Hermann tortoises specifically, so not too different (I believe they require are slightly lower temperatures and less humidity). As the summers here in the UK are relatively short, some time inside seems unavoidable, and I do intend to get UVB lighting (probably in the form of a combined heat lamp). During the periods when it is suitable to house the tortoises outside, I will; however, I'm tempted to bring them back in at night to sleep.

So apart from the initial set-up and the seasonal specific changes, it's just a case of providing food and water, and cleaning up after them?

I'll keep reading and browsing the forums to find the right environment for Hermann tortoises, but if I have any doubts or queries will ask.

Thanks again for all the information.

Nick

 

[Yvonne G]

So apart from the initial set-up and the seasonal specific changes, it's just a case of providing food and water, and cleaning up after them?
Nick

Food, water, cleaning up AND providing the CORRECT habitat requirements for your type of tortoise. If he's in the correct environment, he more-or-less takes care of himself (with you providing the food and water )

Yvonne

 

[Maggie Cummings]

Yvonne certainly has given you some great information. If you interact daily with your tortoise you will notice if the substrate is too dry, and you'll see todays poop and hopefully remove it. You will develop a routine that works for you and your tortoise. I'd get the 100 watt T-rex bulb for heat and UVB rays.
The most important advice is to keep asking questions...

 

[tortoisenerd]

I'll share a little about me and my hatchling russian tortoise (the russian tortoises are very popular in the U.S. among tortoise keepers). I probably spend a minimum of 20 minutes a day caring for him:
-putting out a varied salad daily with a calcium supplement
-cleaning up the uneaten and scattered food
-watering the plants I grow for him
-checking the temperature of his enclosure
-picking up his one daily poop
-he usually pees on his slate feeding tile, in his water dish, or bath tub (cat litter pan) so that isn't a big issue
-changing the water in his dish
-adding water to the moist substrate I have a tub of in there
-giving him a short soak if needed
-putting things back in place he's moved, adjusting bedding, etc
-giving him a look over to see that he looks healthy
-I usually wipe his butt because I'm weird like that and want him clean, lol
-giving him some of my time and love and attention

I weigh and measure him weekly--for older torts this is usually a monthly affair or even less often. I go to the store once or twice a week and pick up fresh food. I wash, dry, and store the greens so they are ready to go in the morning. I've never smelled a thing in his enclosure--even the poops are very mild smelling. Tortoises are very clean compared to a guinea pig or hamster, for example. I have his light on a timer, and the heat emitter on all the time to supplement that.

I have aspen so on the chance he pees and I see it before it dries, I pick it out (you probably won't see the watery part of the pee with a moist substrate; torts also output urates as part of their pee sometimes and those are white so you'd see them). The poops rarely make a mess, so if I keep up on the maintenance I could probably go a month or two without changing it all out. I keep my substrate so deep that I just change off the top layer except in his bed area where he digs down into it. I buy the aspen in bulk (45 lb bag) because it's cheaper and allows me to use more. I figured out that the huge back from the supplier cost the same as the tiny bag at the petstore that I'd need about 4 of for the huge enclosure (and the 45 lb bag will last several substrate changes).

Budget wise you probably know by now how much equipment you need starting out. The food is a very small expense in proportion to our grocery bill, and I plan on one vet visit with a fecal yearly (about $75 here). I have a $60 bulb to replace yearly, and substrate as needed. I keep an extra bulb on hand as they take awhile to order (no stores around me carry the MVBs and I'm in a big city). That's about it once I got everything set up. I buy his extra stuff for fun though because he's spoiled. New substrates, hides, etc. Lately I've been on a kick of planting trays of seeds.

I would feel comfortable leaving him for up to a weekend, with a big meal before I left and maybe some Mazuri to munch on while I'm gone. It's also not bad for them to have a fast day every once in awhile; they'd definitely get that in the wild.

You probably want a back-up plan for if your power goes out, because that can be a real issue as torts need to stay warm. They can go without the UVB for a short period though. My back-up plan is I have hand warmer packets as he's so small. We also have a wood-burning fireplace so we could get hot water.

I think torts are great pets. Sure they aren't like a dog, but mine still recognizes me, enjoys being held, friendly, etc. Best wishes!

 

[nrfitchett4]

I found my MVB online for $20 less than the pet stores here in San Antonio.

 

[tortoisenerd]

I got mine online for $50 plus $10 shipping. Haven't even seen them in stores.

 

[nrfitchett4]

i don't remember where I got mine online, but it was $33 and free shipping.
Even pet smart has had them on occasion.

 

[NickPoole]

Thanks for all the advice. The daily routine seems very manageable and definitely something I'd be both willing and capable of doing: I no longer have any doubts about whether I could properly care for a tortoise.

I'm going to set aside around £200 which should be enough for setting up both indoors and outdoors habitats (if it costs more, then it costs more), and start construction after I've finished my degree in May/June. Once the habitats ready, I'll start looking for breeders near me.

I haven't seen any T-rex bulbs in the UK yet, but I'll defiantly find an equivalent UVB bulb.

Kate, I suspect I will end up spoiling mine as well (although I'll be careful to to overfeed). The seed trays sound like fun; will you be putting them into the habitat, or just picking the plants as food?

 

[Crazy1]

You have gotten some great advice in this thread. Here are a few sites to look into for you. Good luck, glad to see you are doing your research first and see you around the forum.

Where you can find MVB in the UK
http://www.reptileuv.com/
http://www.uvguide.co.uk/mercvapourspots.htm

Also here is a site in the UK that carries both the lamps and has a breeders list and may even sell Hermans
http://www.shelledwarriors.co.uk/site/Welcome.html

 

[tortoisenerd]

Nick: For now I have the boxes on the windowsill in three stages of sprouting. The first and second ones are ready to pick from for food. We put him in there once but he got a little overwhelmed and it was damp/cold compared to his enclosure (he didn't even want to nibble). I think the poor little guy may have not recognized the tall sprouts as food too! I probably could sink the tray in somewhere but in all reality I have so much going on in his enclosure there is not too much room.

I think in summer (also short here in the pacific northwest) the seedlings will go outside, and the tort will have an outdoor enclosure for when we are home to supervise. I could probably let him graze outside if the trays had warmed up enough (they are actually tall enough that if he was occupied he couldn't get out too easily. We're going to make an outdoor enclosure out of a rubbermaid tub, which can also serve as a travel enclosure for him--which is very good in case of emergencies, or if I need a friend to pet sit at their place. I can just stick the tort in the tub and cover it with a screen if I am not directly watching him. He can get some real sun then.

Here's some photos of his enclosure so you can see what I mean when I say I'm already out of space. It's about 5.5 ft long and 1.5 ft wide, built to specs of pre-cut wood, with a few cuts made in the store. We assembled it in the garage with only a hammer and nails, and some extra support brackets screwed in. Waterproofed the wood, and stapled in a shower pan liner (like a thick pond liner or tarp). Not too much space in there unless I wanted to take stuff out, and if the tray stayed in there more than a day or two it would have to be near the light. It was made long and narrow to fit against a wall on top of a cabinet as we are short on space.

Here's the tour!

water, food tile (a little over half of a 12 in. tile), log hide, cuttlebone, fake plant

climbing rocks, driftwood, seedlings that needed more heat, hay piles to serve as hides in the warm middle area, basking area

 

[NickPoole]

Crazy1: Thanks for the links. It looks like the mega-ray is available over here, although there seem to be only a couple of suppliers. The zoo-med and exo-terra bulbs seem more common, but I haven't seen the names around the forums nearly as much as the mega-ray or the Trex.

Kate: Thanks for the tour; it looks cosy and Trevor looks very relaxed. Is your table so tall to stop him climbing out, or to keep the heat in? I think I have a bit more width to work with, but less length; should mean that I can transport the table if needed. Which is probably a good thing as I intend to build the outside encolure into the garden itself. If all goes to plan, I might be able to plant some appropriate plants in the outside enclosure, but I can understand why a tortoise might not recognised plants for food.

 

[tortoisenerd]

I had a choice of either 12 in. wide or 18 in. wide wood. I chose the 18 in. because I planned on 6+ in. of substrate, and then eventually adult size. Don't want the tortoise to be able to see out if it climbs up. Now I realize we'll be expanding or building a new enclosure before he reaches adult size, and the height is a bit excessive. Yes, it does help keep the heat in better though! I think it still gets enough air circulation, and we definitely have the peace of mind knowing he can't get out even if he climbs on the furnishings.

The Mega Ray or T-Rex is the way to go from what I've read, although some of the other models have really improved lately.

 

[NickPoole]

Sorry for the huge delay in response, I've been up to my neck in coursework

I guess overestimating the height has some good benefits. I've actually just picked up a large(ish) storage box as a starter enclosure; that way I can quite easily add more room by joining more containers together. Should last long enough for me to move to a house where I'll have better control of the temperatures and hopefully have some more space too to build a better enclosure.

Also it looks like I'll be able to start building a decent outdoors enclosure as soon as May.

I'll look into finding a Mega-Ray in the UK in a few weeks time; thanks for the advice.

 

[tortoisenerd]

The T-Rex Active UV Heat is another brand the Mega Ray is sold under...supposedly the same bulb, but the Mega Ray may be slightly preferred if you can get it for the same price.

 

[nrfitchett4]

I found t-rex at the herp show here in san antonio for $20!!!

 

[tortoisenerd]

That's shocking as the lowest I've seen them is $40!