Couple of questions about Greeks

[theboardwalkbody]

Hello, everyone. I apologize in advance if this thread is in the wrong section.

I've had Little Foot for over 6mo. now, he turned 1 last week. I think he's about 3in now (it's hard to tell he never holds still!). Obviously I can't tell for sure yet if he's a boy or girl, so I'm just calling him a he for now. He's an Ibera Greek.

Anyway - I'm wondering:

1. Is it safe to house different subspecies of Greeks together? i.e. Iberas and Goldens or Libyans? Or is it once you have one subspecies you have to stick with that?

2.. Is it safe to house torts of different ages together? Say a hatchling with a 1yr old or would they both need to be about the same age?

3. Will torts of the same species be less aggressive toward each other or is that not a factor? If a tort is used to being housed alone (as mine has been alone since I got him) will that make him aggressive towards newcomers?

4. Should I get a newbie at some point at what age do torts become sexually mature and will Greeks of a different subspecies reproduce (or does it not work that way?) I only ask because I would be CLUELESS in the event of eggs, and as much as I would LOVE to experience the hatching of little babies I would be freaking out trying to figure out what to do to ensure their health and that there are no complications.

5. Are quarantines necessary for torts? I read somewhere that a 6mo quarantine was mandatory. I have the equipment and housing available to do this, so it would not be a deal breaker, I would just prefer to house them together so that care/cleaning would be easier. But I'll do what I need to in order to ensure their health. Is quarantine still necessary if ordering through breeders rather than online stores?

I have tried several Google searches for Libyan Greeks but most of the pictures returned were of Goldens. Do Libyan Greeks have "sandy" colored skin or is it darker like my Iberas? I would love a Greek that has a colorful shell pattern but sandy colored skin. Tortoise Supply has some pictures of beautiful tortoises but since I know nothing about the health and quality of them I am apprehensive about adopting through them.

I was also wondering if anyone knows, ballpark, what the average price is of a Golden or a Libyan as I would hate to find one and be overcharged. Ideally hatchlings (I think age figures into cost). And if anyone knows of any breeders out there who breed these either of these species that would be wonderful as I tend to regard breeders higher and would prefer not to go through one of those online "store" type places (again because I know next to nothing about their health and would not want to be shipped a sick tortoise only to infect my healthy one).

 

[parrotlady]

First of all you need to clarify a few things, space, how much do you have available? The quick answer is tortoises are best kept and housed as single animals, if you choose to have more than one you will need multiples, at least females (3 females to 1 male), you can keep sub species together but I don't recommend it. Animals from different areas require different care an example would be not all Greeks hibernate. Do your research, make sure you have adequate space for more than one animal. If you can provide for multiples then by all means go for it.

 

[Gillian M]

Please post pictures of your torts as well as your enclosure(s) so as to enable the experts to help you.

You could read the 'beginners' thread as well as the different care sheets.

I suggest separating the torts; as these cute little animals do NOT like COMPANY: they'd rather be alone. Futhermore, bullying could begin, and one tort could harm another. Why not avoid this?

 

[johnandjade]

another vote for separation. if you are housing indoors you could perhaps have individual chambers stacked up if space is an issue?

 

[theboardwalkbody]

I've got a 3ft by 2.5ft enclosure (indoors) set up at the moment, but also have a 6ft by 2.5ft one (which I'm not using ATM because my tort is less than 4inches - he's only a year old, still fits in the palm of my hand). I made them out of old bookshelves and lined them with a bit of plastic to keep the wood from getting gross. I was told that 6ft by 3ft is good for an adult Greek but that for hatchlings sometimes it can be too big which is why I also made the (slightly) smaller one for now instead of going right to the big one. I was thinking that if I do get another one and separation was required that I would move my tort to the bigger one and put the newbie in the smaller one (I'm only looking for hatchlings) and then building a new 6'x3' one when it grows bigger and needs to be put in the bigger one.
So I have the space for separation - I was mostly wondering if they could be kept together at all because I know different species should never mix (because of different husbandry requirements) but wasn't sure about subspecies or if mixing subspecies also carried dangerous health risks or if mixing torts of different ages (even within a year of each other) was dangerous.
My biggest questions were mostly if anyone knows how much Greeks should cost so I don't end up overpaying or anything or if anyone knows of any Breeders for Goldens and Libyans. I can keep them separate, that's not an issue.

 

[kirsty Johnston]

I would not recommend mixing any sub species for Greeks. Some people may have different opinions but they do have different requirements. For example Tunisian spur thighs don't hibernate but Turkish do. Greeks also appreciate their own company and very rarely will they get on with being housed with others. If you have two males they will fight for territory and if you have a male and a female the male will constantly bite the females legs to try and mate with her. Likewise if they are different sizes the bigger tort will more than likely bully the smaller and it's just unfair.
Like I say many people on this forum have more than one tort and if you are going to do the same and have multiple tortoises be prepared to have multiple enclosures.

With regards to quarantine they will need to be quarantined for around 6 months

 

[kirsty Johnston]

I've got a 3ft by 2.5ft enclosure (indoors) set up at the moment, but also have a 6ft by 2.5ft one (which I'm not using ATM because my tort is less than 4inches - he's only a year old, still fits in the palm of my hand). I made them out of old bookshelves and lined them with a bit of plastic to keep the wood from getting gross. I was told that 6ft by 3ft is good for an adult Greek but that for hatchlings sometimes it can be too big which is why I also made the (slightly) smaller one for now instead of going right to the big one. I was thinking that if I do get another one and separation was required that I would move my tort to the bigger one and put the newbie in the smaller one (I'm only looking for hatchlings) and then building a new 6'x3' one when it grows bigger and needs to be put in the bigger one.
So I have the space for separation - I was mostly wondering if they could be kept together at all because I know different species should never mix (because of different husbandry requirements) but wasn't sure about subspecies or if mixing subspecies also carried dangerous health risks or if mixing torts of different ages (even within a year of each other) was dangerous.
My biggest questions were mostly if anyone knows how much Greeks should cost so I don't end up overpaying or anything or if anyone knows of any Breeders for Goldens and Libyans. I can keep them separate, that's not an issue.

It depends on the size. In the UK a yearling Greek would usually cost around £100 from a reputable breeder

 

[theboardwalkbody]

OK. I'll keep them separate. The care sheet I have lists all subspecies of Greeks together, which is why I wanted to double check if there were different requirements/feeding requirements. The tort I have now is only a year old so I can't accurately sex him yet but I have a feeling he may be male (to me it looks like the plastron is concave but the tail is nubby - but like I said - still too small yet) so in order to keep him from bullying a baby I'll keep them away from each other. Out of curiosity - are females as aggressive as males for territory? I assume yes. I'm just wondering because I've heard of people keeping pairs and I'm just wondering if it's because they're both females that they get along or if it's because they're not Greeks. (I'm learning that Greeks seem to be the more aggressive species now and thats why they do best alone).

 

[theboardwalkbody]

I've actually come up with another question: I read elsewhere on here that Golden Greeks are "laden with infectious disease". Based on the info above I'm going to keep them separate to prevent bullying. But what about cross contamination? Like if I handle the Golden and then handle the Ibera right after could my Ibera get sick? I was leaning towards getting a golden over a libyan but if handling a Golden could spread disease to my tort simply by handling then I would not want to risk that.

 

[kirsty Johnston]

OK. I'll keep them separate. The care sheet I have lists all subspecies of Greeks together, which is why I wanted to double check if there were different requirements/feeding requirements. The tort I have now is only a year old so I can't accurately sex him yet but I have a feeling he may be male (to me it looks like the plastron is concave but the tail is nubby - but like I said - still too small yet) so in order to keep him from bullying a baby I'll keep them away from each other. Out of curiosity - are females as aggressive as males for territory? I assume yes. I'm just wondering because I've heard of people keeping pairs and I'm just wondering if it's because they're both females that they get along or if it's because they're not Greeks. (I'm learning that Greeks seem to be the more aggressive species now and thats why they do best alone).

Females get along much better in pairs but it's a bad idea to keep them together if one or more of them are gravid and again if one female is bigger than another it can lead to bullying
The problem that most people have is similar to yourself and don't know the sex of their torts and are unprepared for what will likely happen.

 

[theboardwalkbody]

Ah, I see. Yeah - it can be hard to be impatient tp see what your tort is (I know I started looking for signs when he was only 3mo old. LOL But I've still got YEARS to go probably before it can be certain) so all in all it seems the best way to go about it is separation. So that's what I'll do. They'll be happier with all the room to themselves in the long run and I wont have to worry about bullying or babies. So now I'm just concerned about cross contamination between Golden's and other Greeks.

 

[TurtleBug]

I've actually come up with another question: I read elsewhere on here that Golden Greeks are "laden with infectious disease". Based on the info above I'm going to keep them separate to prevent bullying. But what about cross contamination? Like if I handle the Golden and then handle the Ibera right after could my Ibera get sick? I was leaning towards getting a golden over a libyan but if handling a Golden could spread disease to my tort simply by handling then I would not want to risk that.

All WILD caught tortoises can be "laden with infectious diseases" (as you say) and parasites, not just Golden Greeks. Captive bred tortoises are a different story. Buy a captive bred baby Golden from a reputable breeder and you'll have a healthy tortoise that's a joy to raise.

Middle Eastern Golden Greeks are great pets and a lot easier to find than Libyan Greeks.

 

[theboardwalkbody]

Alright, thanks! I wasn't sure - I saw that written in a breeding thread on here and just wanted clarification.

 

[XxRockyxX]

Greeks tend to cost somewhere between 110-180 usually spends where you get them and what kind of Greek they are. I got mines at PetSmart for a deal of $98

 

[Tidgy's Dad]

Greeks cost about $2 to $3 dollars here, but I don't suppose that's much help.

 

[kirsty Johnston]

Greeks cost about $2 to $3 dollars here, but I don't suppose that's much help.

Lol remind to never go to Morocco... Cheap cigarettes and tortoises sounds like paradise

 

[kirsty Johnston]

Greeks cost about $2 to $3 dollars here, but I don't suppose that's much help.

Aw yeah... And the heat. Must never forget the heat that is non existent in the UK

 

[Tidgy's Dad]

Lol remind to never go to Morocco... Cheap cigarettes and tortoises sounds like paradise

But you can't get bacon,Marmite or English cheese.

 

[kirsty Johnston]

But you can't get bacon,Marmite or English cheese.

LOL! I'd take the hit