Cherry head tortoise has dry skin even though humidity is high

[CanOfCorn]

My juvenile cherry head has very dry skin on his front legs. Here are the enclosure specs:
3x4 feet, closed top, 3 CHE’s set at 85F, overall humidity 75-89% depending on how close to the heat lamps, T5 UV light 10hrs daily, cypress mulch substrate.
He gets daily soaks in lukewarm water also. I understand he is pyramiding a little bit as well. This is due to my previous enclosure being too dry (around 65% humidity). He’s been in this new enclosure for 8 months now and I’ve been able to maintain the humidity without making the substrate too wet. Since humidity isn’t an issue anymore, what else could cause his skin to be dry like this? Also, is there anything I can do to help him? I know not to put any lotion on him but can I put organic coconut oil perhaps? Thank you in advance for any help.

 

[Alex and the Redfoot]

Hello!
1. What is his diet?
2. Can you make a photo of the plastron? I see something like a shell fungus, but not sure.
3. What are CHE wattages and the enclosure's height? Did you measure temperature right under the CHE (with a temp gun or by putting a probe for an hour or so)?
3. What thermostat model do you use?
4. What T5 lamp do you use (Desert/Forest/5.0/10.0)? How high is it mounted?

Overall setup sounds good just a few things can be tweaked:
1. Set CHE to 82F. 85F is a little bit higher than needed.
2. UVB is enough to run just 3-4 hours a day. Use a simple LED strip for an ambient 12-hour light.

 

[TechnoCheese]

Organic coconut oil would work well, yes. You can also apply it to their shell, which can help even further to stop pyramiding in new growth.

 

[TechnoCheese]

Is it possible that he could just be shedding, or there's something else going on? I don't keep this species, so I don't know if they shed on the fronts of their legs like that, but if it was just dryness I would expect it to also be dry on the top of his head, and it doesn't appear to be. Your humidity is also high enough and I assume that your substrate is damp enough that it seems odd to me that the legs would be so dry. Again, though, I don't keep this species.

 

[CanOfCorn]

Hello!
1. What is his diet?
2. Can you make a photo of the plastron? I see something like a shell fungus, but not sure.
3. What are CHE wattages and the enclosure's height? Did you measure temperature right under the CHE (with a temp gun or by putting a probe for an hour or so)?
3. What thermostat model do you use?
4. What T5 lamp do you use (Desert/Forest/5.0/10.0)? How high is it mounted?

Overall setup sounds good just a few things can be tweaked:
1. Set CHE to 82F. 85F is a little bit higher than needed.
2. UVB is enough to run just 3-4 hours a day. Use a simple LED strip for an ambient 12-hour light.

Here's some more pictures. To answer your questions:
1. Diet is escarole, endive, mango, kiwi, papaya, arugula, romaine lettuce, cantaloupe, hibiscus flowers/leaves. Occasionally he gets mushroom, kale, shrimp, blueberries. It's usually whatever I can find in the organic section at the grocery store when my hibiscus plant isn't producing enough flowers. He used to like dandelion but won't touch it anymore. I add calcium powder without D3 about 3x per week.
2. He had a bit of fungus on his plastron the first day I got him so I contacted his breeder. They said they would take him back and give a full refund but I already got attached so they told me I can treat with tinactin. I'm not sure if it came back but I've been keeping his substrate as dry as I can.
3. I have 3 CHEs, one is 100w, other 2 are 60w. They are mounted in a row in the middle of the box about 14" from the substrate. I used a temp gun and right below the big lamp is 89F but that's the only way I can get the sides of the enclosure to be higher than 79F.
4. I have an inkbird thermostat
5. UV brand is Zilla. It looks like a black rectangle with a tube light inside. I had to take out the clear plastic part over the light bulb.

Thanks for your response, I'm willing to make whatever changes I need even if I have to sell my kidney to afford it.

 

[ZEROPILOT]

It's so odd that only the legs look dry.

 

[CanOfCorn]

I’m taking him to the vet tomorrow just to be safe. Maybe it’s fungus from him sleeping face down in the hole that he dug in the mulch

 

[Alex and the Redfoot]

Hello!
1. His plastron looks healthy. I wad conserned about white stains on the gulars (bottom shell right under his neck). Maybe it's just an old (dead) fungus formation. You can clean it off with a soft toothbrush and see if new white spots appear.

2. Overall, you're doing great at caring for him!

Diet is really good, and you can reduce calcium supplements to 1 time a week. And maybe add occasional Mazuri or Miner-All to compensate any possible vitamins/minerals deficiencies.

Can you check what exactly Zilla lamp do you have? They differ in amount of emitted UV B and at 14 inches 10-12% UVB output can be excessive for redfoots.

The next thing is to check if plywood walls hold heat well (outside surface should be about room temperature). If not, some insulation from the outside might help. I feel, that with even with 2 60watt CHEs you should be able to heat the box without problems. And since surface under the large CHE is 89F, then his shell gets even more hot.

Last, but not the least - give him a large shallow terracota saucer with a fresh water for self soaking (not directly under CHEs or covered with broad leaves).

 

[ZEROPILOT]

I agree with @Alex and the Redfoot
Redfoot tortoises enjoy water. They like to soak and to swim. They're much more aquatic than most people seem to think.
At any given time, at least one of mine are in a pool. And they all get excited when it rains

 

[CanOfCorn]

This will be a long post, sorry in advance.

Update, what the vet said last week:
Overall very healthy tortoise, shell is a little bit soft so I need to increase calcium, skin dryness is not from fungus probably just winter dryness, no signs of abnormalities otherwise. They told me to feed mazuri pellets as the bulk of the diet and to have a basking area of 90F in his enclosure. Fun fact, he is definitely a male because he flashed the entire veterinary office his hemipenes.

My thoughts:
90F is way too high and I know this because anything above 89F makes him hide. He likes to bask sometimes in the 89F spot so I just spray his shell and let him be. Mazuri every day is not ideal. Everyone on this forum has said redfoots need fresh fruits and leafy greens so no I will not be feeding mazuri every day. I will increase calcium but it won’t do much if he can’t absorb it so when it gets warmer I’ll take him to the yard for some natural sunshine a few times a week. I think the vet I took him to specializes in sulcatas and Russians since redfoots aren’t so common here. Probably why she’s giving me information that’s more suited for arid species.

Anyway, I came home and really inspected his skin. It doesn’t look like dryness and not every part of his legs look like that. I decided to put a tiny dot of tinactin on a single scale on his front leg. The next day when I checked again, the growth looked reduced and his skin was darker brown instead of the light brown crusty stuff in the picture. I repeated this for 2 more days and it pretty much went away in that spot alone. So in conclusion, the vet had no idea what she was saying and my tortoise has skin fungus. I’m continuing to treat it with tinactin but in small areas each time because I’m not sure if there will systemic absorption through the skin like that and I don’t want to cause adverse side effects. So far he’s doing great and I make sure to check on him every few hours to watch for irritation.

Response to other things:
I put a towel over the plexiglass on the top of his box. It has done wonders for stabilizing box temperatures. I’m looking at some insulation foam sheets possibly to use on the outside of his box but for now the towel is helping. I have a zilla slimline UVB I believe. I don’t have the box anymore but I know it’s 12”. I did turn the light timer to 3 hours a day. I’ll invest in some nice dimmable LEDs soon so I can create a sunrise and sunset effect for the little guy.
He has a large shallow water dish in his enclosure but prefers to be soaked rather than to soak himself. His water dish is virtually untouched every day when I go to change the water. This potato sized cretin has decided that every time I reach in to change his water or take out his uneaten food he has to ram into my hand with his shell until I leave. It’s as if he knows that my love for him supersedes any pain he can inflict on me.

Thanks for letting me vent and also for the great advice @Alex and the Redfoot and @ZEROPILOT

 

[ZEROPILOT]

This will be a long post, sorry in advance.

Update, what the vet said last week:
Overall very healthy tortoise, shell is a little bit soft so I need to increase calcium, skin dryness is not from fungus probably just winter dryness, no signs of abnormalities otherwise. They told me to feed mazuri pellets as the bulk of the diet and to have a basking area of 90F in his enclosure. Fun fact, he is definitely a male because he flashed the entire veterinary office his hemipenes.

My thoughts:
90F is way too high and I know this because anything above 89F makes him hide. He likes to bask sometimes in the 89F spot so I just spray his shell and let him be. Mazuri every day is not ideal. Everyone on this forum has said redfoots need fresh fruits and leafy greens so no I will not be feeding mazuri every day. I will increase calcium but it won’t do much if he can’t absorb it so when it gets warmer I’ll take him to the yard for some natural sunshine a few times a week. I think the vet I took him to specializes in sulcatas and Russians since redfoots aren’t so common here. Probably why she’s giving me information that’s more suited for arid species.

Anyway, I came home and really inspected his skin. It doesn’t look like dryness and not every part of his legs look like that. I decided to put a tiny dot of tinactin on a single scale on his front leg. The next day when I checked again, the growth looked reduced and his skin was darker brown instead of the light brown crusty stuff in the picture. I repeated this for 2 more days and it pretty much went away in that spot alone. So in conclusion, the vet had no idea what she was saying and my tortoise has skin fungus. I’m continuing to treat it with tinactin but in small areas each time because I’m not sure if there will systemic absorption through the skin like that and I don’t want to cause adverse side effects. So far he’s doing great and I make sure to check on him every few hours to watch for irritation.

Response to other things:
I put a towel over the plexiglass on the top of his box. It has done wonders for stabilizing box temperatures. I’m looking at some insulation foam sheets possibly to use on the outside of his box but for now the towel is helping. I have a zilla slimline UVB I believe. I don’t have the box anymore but I know it’s 12”. I did turn the light timer to 3 hours a day. I’ll invest in some nice dimmable LEDs soon so I can create a sunrise and sunset effect for the little guy.
He has a large shallow water dish in his enclosure but prefers to be soaked rather than to soak himself. His water dish is virtually untouched every day when I go to change the water. This potato sized cretin has decided that every time I reach in to change his water or take out his uneaten food he has to ram into my hand with his shell until I leave. It’s as if he knows that my love for him supersedes any pain he can inflict on me.

Thanks for letting me vent and also for the great advice @Alex and the Redfoot and @ZEROPILOT

So few vets will admit that they have no idea what they're doing. And quickly reading old information or information about another species of tortoise, etc. Then charging you good money as they learn.
90° won't harm your Redfoot. But it is, like you've seen, towards the upper level of their comfort zone.
Mazuri 5M21 is a great treat. But not to be used as the primary food. You know this also.
As far as I know. Athletes foot cream isn't dangerous. I've used it for decades. Absolutely no issues. Only success.
Some Redfoot that ram also nip. Watch those fingers and toes

 

[Alex and the Redfoot]

It's great that you can assess the vet's advice and see what's wrong or not.

A few thoughts:
1. Yes, Mazuri 5M21 is nice as a supplement once or twice a week to augment grocery foods.

2. A smalm pinch of calcium once or twice a week is sufficient.

3. Most cremes have an oil base (mineral oil, for example). And that could be the component which improves the skin look. Check, if coconut oil or plain Vaseline will make the same effect.

4. If your Zilla lamp is 12% and it's T5 HO type - it's too much UVB. For the height of 14 inches T8 12% (thick tubes) - is okay, as T5 6% (thin tubes). If you can find and make a photo of the label on the tube itself, we will know for sure. Tricky thing here is that lamps lose UV output over time. You have to replace them on schedule or get a Solarmeter 6.5 to know if they are really degraded. Or just provide enough natural sunlight (1-2 hour a week is usually enough).