Body soaking up water?
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I believe that is false. I'm pretty sure the reason people soak them in water is to encourage them to drink. They don't actually absorb the water.
I have never seen Nelson drink while being soaked!
I have never seen Nelson drink while being soaked!
ChiKat said:I believe that is false. I'm pretty sure the reason people soak them in water is to encourage them to drink. They don't actually absorb the water.
I have never seen Nelson drink while being soaked!
Have you tried soaking Nelson first thing in the morning. When I put Hermy in his water dish the morning, he loves that. He stays for like 10 minutes (he can walk out of the dish if he wants to) and he drinks water.
They DO absorb a bit of liquid through the thin skin under their throat and around the cloaca. Contrary to popular belief, they DO NOT drink through the cloaca, but rather absorb liquid through the thin skin surrounding the cloaca.
Isa said:
Nelson usually loves his soaks- he'll just sit there and chill. But he never drinks when I soak him! He will walk over to his water dish and drink though.
emysemys said:
Very interesting!! Thanks!
One of the big differences in the evolution of amphibians to reptiles is that reptilian skin is basically waterproof. They can absorb a little through it... possibly (especially in the softer areas), but they can absorb some through the cloaca.
Although soaking tortoises has a long history, there is some debate over the effectiveness of it. I would suggest, based on my own limited understanding, that it should only be a small part of your total hydration plan for the animal.
Although soaking tortoises has a long history, there is some debate over the effectiveness of it. I would suggest, based on my own limited understanding, that it should only be a small part of your total hydration plan for the animal.
The problem with a tortoise that hates being soaked is you can easily stress them out I'm lucky in that Nelson actually seems to enjoy his soaks the majority of the time.
But if he does try to climb out of the little bowl I soak him in, I let him out.
He drinks water from his water dish regularly though, so I guess he's unique in that way. He's very different from other Russians I've read about, in many ways!
I'm lucky in that Nelson actually seems to enjoy his soaks the majority of the time.But if he does try to climb out of the little bowl I soak him in, I let him out.
He drinks water from his water dish regularly though, so I guess he's unique in that way. He's very different from other Russians I've read about, in many ways!
ChiKat said:The problem with a tortoise that hates being soaked is you can easily stress them out
But if he does try to climb out of the little bowl I soak him in, I let him out.
He drinks water from his water dish regularly though, so I guess he's unique in that way. He's very different from other Russians I've read about, in many ways!
Torty does drink sometimes from his water dish but I feel maybe it's not enough which is why I soak him but the minute I put him into the tub, he tries to get out, he tries for the full 10 minutes I soak him.
Also I got these replies from Shelled Warriors, click here,
http://www.shelledwarriors.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?p=342206#post342206
“Water is an essential part of life and tortoises drink by submerging their entire head underwater. These species can take water in via their nose, mouth or even suck fluid via a vent into their cloaca, bladder or colon – from there it can be absorbed into the systemic circulation. Bathing allows the tortoise to obtain water and to void bladder and bowel contentsâ€Â
Reference:
http://www.irishveterinaryjournal.co...ESA_Feb_09.pdf
Also:
Tortoises will absorb water through the cloaca (located in the tail).
Reference:
http://www.desertmuseum.org/programs/tap_tortcare.php
There is one water turtle that can actually "breathe" through the cloaca, but as for drinking, see the reference article here:
"However, I fear a misleading impression has been given that all turtles can do so--not true. A few "side-necked" turtles (like the Fitzroy River guy) can, but the vast majority of turtles either don't have cloacal bursae, or have them but can't use them for breathing. I reviewed all available evidence on the topic in a recent paper in the Journal of Experimental Zoology (see: http://www3.interscience.wiley.com/cgi-bin/abstract/85006057/START), in which I also proved once and for all that, whatever turtles are doing with their butts, they cannot drink through them. Science marches on. --Chas Peterson, Department of Zoology, Oklahoma State University, Stillwater OK "
And this is the Journal experiment he refers to:
"Abstract
Many aquatic turtles possess paired evaginations of the cloaca called cloacal bursae. Despite more than two centuries of study, little consensus exists as to the function(s) of these organs. We tested a recent suggestion that bursae could function in water uptake (cloacal drinking). Turtles (Trachemys scripta) were dehydrated (68-86% of maximum body mass) and given the opportunity to drink orally or cloacally. Dehydration caused increases in hematocrit and osmolality of extracellular fluid (ECF), but only after loss of 10-12% of maximum body mass, suggesting that turtles osmoregulated by reabsorbing water from the urinary bladder. Turtles drank eagerly when they could submerge their heads, and drinking was accompanied by an increase in body mass and a decrease in ECF osmolality. However, dehydrated turtles with tail and anus submerged showed no changes in mass or osmolality, suggesting that water absorption is not a significant function of the cloacal bursae in this species. Evidence for other putative functions is reviewed, leading to a pluralistic view: in cryptodires, bursae apparently function primarily in buoyancy control and secondarily in ion transport and nesting, but several pleurodires have been shown recently to use them in aquatic respiration. J. Exp. Zool. 290:247-254, 2001. © 2001 Wiley-Liss, Inc."
Of course, this experiment was done on water turtles, not tortoises, but I still believe that contrary to the U.K. articles listed above, they DO NOT drink through their cloaca.
"However, I fear a misleading impression has been given that all turtles can do so--not true. A few "side-necked" turtles (like the Fitzroy River guy) can, but the vast majority of turtles either don't have cloacal bursae, or have them but can't use them for breathing. I reviewed all available evidence on the topic in a recent paper in the Journal of Experimental Zoology (see: http://www3.interscience.wiley.com/cgi-bin/abstract/85006057/START), in which I also proved once and for all that, whatever turtles are doing with their butts, they cannot drink through them. Science marches on. --Chas Peterson, Department of Zoology, Oklahoma State University, Stillwater OK "
And this is the Journal experiment he refers to:
"Abstract
Many aquatic turtles possess paired evaginations of the cloaca called cloacal bursae. Despite more than two centuries of study, little consensus exists as to the function(s) of these organs. We tested a recent suggestion that bursae could function in water uptake (cloacal drinking). Turtles (Trachemys scripta) were dehydrated (68-86% of maximum body mass) and given the opportunity to drink orally or cloacally. Dehydration caused increases in hematocrit and osmolality of extracellular fluid (ECF), but only after loss of 10-12% of maximum body mass, suggesting that turtles osmoregulated by reabsorbing water from the urinary bladder. Turtles drank eagerly when they could submerge their heads, and drinking was accompanied by an increase in body mass and a decrease in ECF osmolality. However, dehydrated turtles with tail and anus submerged showed no changes in mass or osmolality, suggesting that water absorption is not a significant function of the cloacal bursae in this species. Evidence for other putative functions is reviewed, leading to a pluralistic view: in cryptodires, bursae apparently function primarily in buoyancy control and secondarily in ion transport and nesting, but several pleurodires have been shown recently to use them in aquatic respiration. J. Exp. Zool. 290:247-254, 2001. © 2001 Wiley-Liss, Inc."
Of course, this experiment was done on water turtles, not tortoises, but I still believe that contrary to the U.K. articles listed above, they DO NOT drink through their cloaca.
The Irish Vet. Journal article listed says that they ABSORB through the cloaca, not DRINK that way. The question is- how MUCH do they absorb that way or through the skin. I don't know of any actual studies done- just the factoid repeated over and over and often slightly mangled.
Based on what we know, I would bet that the actual amount of liquid that enters the tortoise's system via the cloaca from soaking is rather small. Maybe helpful in some situations, but small.
Can they absorb water IN through the skin? Possibly, but not a lot. After all, human skin is MUCH more permeable and no doctor has EVER told a dehydrated person to sit in a tub. If a tortoise skin took in water, the skin would change in response to the water by swelling, etc. and it does not.
Based on what we know, I would bet that the actual amount of liquid that enters the tortoise's system via the cloaca from soaking is rather small. Maybe helpful in some situations, but small.
Can they absorb water IN through the skin? Possibly, but not a lot. After all, human skin is MUCH more permeable and no doctor has EVER told a dehydrated person to sit in a tub. If a tortoise skin took in water, the skin would change in response to the water by swelling, etc. and it does not.
M
Maggie Cummings
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I was taught to soak my tortoises almost daily. So because I generally do what I am taught (contrary to popular belief) I soak my animals. My Cali stopped eating so after 3 days of refusing food I took her to the Vet and as soon as the Vet looked at Cali she exclaimed "Oh she's dehydrated". Now how in the hell can she be dehydrated when I have been soaking her everyday of her 4 years of living??? EVERY FREAKIN DAY
So painful...Cali was dead in 3 weeks. So I'm not too sure about this soaking thing. I have seen actual physical proof that it may not work (Cali). So I don't soak daily anymore. Instead I use my visual eye and if they look dehydrated I soak. But medicine has said that by the time our brain knows we are thirsty we are already dehydrated. I also use my experience and I try to soak everybody 2 or 3 times a week if not more. They DO indeed drink with their whole heads underwater, and some get very stressed in the water so I try to calm those freaky ones and I try to soak them more often to show them that water ain't all bad and I try to get them used to water. I think some animals need to be taught to be soaked. Some don't like to drink while you are watching...OK, that's my lesson for the day...
So painful...Cali was dead in 3 weeks. So I'm not too sure about this soaking thing. I have seen actual physical proof that it may not work (Cali). So I don't soak daily anymore. Instead I use my visual eye and if they look dehydrated I soak. But medicine has said that by the time our brain knows we are thirsty we are already dehydrated. I also use my experience and I try to soak everybody 2 or 3 times a week if not more. They DO indeed drink with their whole heads underwater, and some get very stressed in the water so I try to calm those freaky ones and I try to soak them more often to show them that water ain't all bad and I try to get them used to water. I think some animals need to be taught to be soaked. Some don't like to drink while you are watching...OK, that's my lesson for the day...
so i am now wondering if iggie has the same problem as cali. i never see him drink and when i soak him he does not much care for it. he goes through spurts....one day he will be running around and the next 7 he does nothing but lay around. i thought he was dehydrated so i have been soaking him daily and placing him in the drinking dish all the time so he will drink.....i have been trying so hard for the last 3 months and i wonder what i may be doing wrong. i have recently bought a eyedropper and am going to try to give him very small amounts when he opens his mouth
Something else to try with Iggy is to really, really wet his food before you place it on the feeding station.
This is what I've always said. Its nice to have some back-up. I KNOW for a fact that they absorb some liquid when soaking just by the "heft" of the turtle before and after the soak (with no obvious drinking).
Madkins007 said:
This is what I've always said. Its nice to have some back-up. I KNOW for a fact that they absorb some liquid when soaking just by the "heft" of the turtle before and after the soak (with no obvious drinking).
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