Leopard Tortoise food

Hey, I have a hatchling tortoise that is 3 and a half months old. I got a few question so please bare with me.

1) he doesn't seem to eat I got him four days ago, and I only seen him eat after 2 days, now that i moved him to bigger enclosure he just seems to hide and I've still haven't seen him eat. Is this normal because of stress?

2) should I leave food out in his enclosure so he has access to it? Or should I set a timed set schedule and take the food away when that time is done and bring the food again when that time comes again, keep in mind he isn't eating thats why i leave food out for him, everytime I approach him and try to give him a leaf or bring him to the food area he just walks away.

3) my leopard tortoise has these kind of white flakes on the back? Is this because of humidity, i have trouble keeping the humidity when i take him outside for 3-4 hours a day for sun, but when I bring him in, the room he stays at stays at 60% humidity and the hygrometer in his enclosure stays 60% as well. How can I provide humidity in that 3-4 hours and how do i take off the white flakes on the shell.

Hi,
Not sure what you mean by white flakes. Looks like he has some new growth that is white. That is good.
Second, food should be available all day. They are grazers. Stress may be keeping him from eating. Not warm enough is often the cause , if it persists. The low temp should be 80F.
Humidity outside really can't be controlled. That size baby, I would put out for only an hour or so a day. As he gets bigger the length can be increased. Be sure to soak daily.

Jodie said:

Hi,
Not sure what you mean by white flakes. Looks like he has some new growth that is white. That is good.
Second, food should be available all day. They are grazers. Stress may be keeping him from eating. Not warm enough is often the cause , if it persists. The low temp should be 80F.
Humidity outside really can't be controlled. That size baby, I would put out for only an hour or so a day. As he gets bigger the length can be increased. Be sure to soak daily.

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Hello thanks for the response!

I keep him outside 3-4 hours a day he has a cool side and a warm side, i dont think anything beats natural sunlight so when i take him in, i dont bother using uvb light because he gets enough uvb from the sun. But even at the sun he doesnt want to eat

I give him, portulacaria afra, jade, tortoise mix for juveniles, and he just bites it and then walks away, doesn't eat it.

He should be eating a variety of fresh weeds, leaves and grasses. Read the care guides. Here is a link to one with diet info. Leopard is the same as Sulcata, just less grass.
http://www.tortoiseforum.org/threads/for-those-who-have-a-young-sulcata.76744/

http://www.tortoiseforum.org/threads/how-to-raise-a-healthy-sulcata-or-leopard-version-2-0.78361/

Dave Dela Rosa said:

Hey, I have a hatchling tortoise that is 3 and a half months old. I got a few question so please bare with me.

1) he doesn't seem to eat I got him four days ago, and I only seen him eat after 2 days, now that i moved him to bigger enclosure he just seems to hide and I've still haven't seen him eat. Is this normal because of stress?

2) should I leave food out in his enclosure so he has access to it? Or should I set a timed set schedule and take the food away when that time is done and bring the food again when that time comes again, keep in mind he isn't eating thats why i leave food out for him, everytime I approach him and try to give him a leaf or bring him to the food area he just walks away.

3) my leopard tortoise has these kind of white flakes on the back? Is this because of humidity, i have trouble keeping the humidity when i take him outside for 3-4 hours a day for sun, but when I bring him in, the room he stays at stays at 60% humidity and the hygrometer in his enclosure stays 60% as well. How can I provide humidity in that 3-4 hours and how do i take off the white flakes on the shell.

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1) To answer question number one, we need a lot more info. What size and type enclosure? What are your four temps? What equipment are you using to maintain those temps and lighting? Are you using a coil type cfl UV bulb? What are you using for night heat? Does he have a humid hide?
2) He should have food available all the time.
3) I see no flakes, but I think you are talking about the marbling that occurs with normal growth. Jodie is seeing the same thing.

There is a lot of misinformation about this species out in the world. Please read those links for the right info.

Dave Dela Rosa said:

I give him, portulacaria afra, jade, tortoise mix for juveniles, and he just bites it and then walks away, doesn't eat it.

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These foods are all listed as okay for tortoises, but if your baby wasn't raised eating these things, he will have no idea what they are. I've offered jade plant to my tortoises many times and none of them really go for it. Because I have so many other good foods for them, I've never bothered to take the time to introduce it properly. You need to ask the breeder what foods this baby was started on and go back to that for a while. Gradually, over weeks or months, begin to introduce all the new foods.

Dave Dela Rosa said:

Hello thanks for the response!

I keep him outside 3-4 hours a day he has a cool side and a warm side, i dont think anything beats natural sunlight so when i take him in, i dont bother using uvb light because he gets enough uvb from the sun. But even at the sun he doesnt want to eat

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The problem with this is that your baby has a problem. Until you know what his problem is and fix it, I'd hold off on the outside time. Hopefully the questions in my post here will help us figure it out. Babies do not do well with too much outside time. 3-4 hours is too much for a little one. They can make all the D3 they need with 15-20 minutes twice a week, and they can go for weeks at a time over winter with no UV at all, because they will use up their stored D3. They don't need 3-4 hours a day, and 3-4 hours a day is detrimental to their health and well being. I've done side by side experiments with groups of clutch mates, and the ones indoors fare much better. My general rule is one hour of sunshine per inch of tortoise, 4-6 times a week, and soak them on the way back in. Once they are 6+", I just leave them outside all day, weather permitting. Once they are 8-10", I let them live outside full time with heated night boxes for colder winter days and nights.

Please feel free to question any of these assertions. Allow me to explain further where necessary.

Tom said:

1) To answer question number one, we need a lot more info. What size and type enclosure? What are your four temps? What equipment are you using to maintain those temps and lighting? Are you using a coil type cfl UV bulb? What are you using for night heat? Does he have a humid hide?
2) He should have food available all the time.
3) I see no flakes, but I think you are talking about the marbling that occurs with normal growth. Jodie is seeing the same thing.

There is a lot of misinformation about this species out in the world. Please read those links for the right info.



These foods are all listed as okay for tortoises, but if your baby wasn't raised eating these things, he will have no idea what they are. I've offered jade plant to my tortoises many times and none of them really go for it. Because I have so many other good foods for them, I've never bothered to take the time to introduce it properly. You need to ask the breeder what foods this baby was started on and go back to that for a while. Gradually, over weeks or months, begin to introduce all the new foods.



The problem with this is that your baby has a problem. Until you know what his problem is and fix it, I'd hold off on the outside time. Hopefully the questions in my post here will help us figure it out. Babies do not do well with too much outside time. 3-4 hours is too much for a little one. They can make all the D3 they need with 15-20 minutes twice a week, and they can go for weeks at a time over winter with no UV at all, because they will use up their stored D3. They don't need 3-4 hours a day, and 3-4 hours a day is detrimental to their health and well being. I've done side by side experiments with groups of clutch mates, and the ones indoors fare much better. My general rule is one hour of sunshine per inch of tortoise, 4-6 times a week, and soak them on the way back in. Once they are 6+", I just leave them outside all day, weather permitting. Once they are 8-10", I let them live outside full time with heated night boxes for colder winter days and nights.

Please feel free to question any of these assertions. Allow me to explain further where necessary.

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Hello, I'm using a concrete mixing tub, the one that was recommended by tortoisetown and kamp kenan, http://www.homedepot.com/p/Plasgad-Black-Large-Concrete-Mixing-Tub-887102C/205451585
honestly, I've been keeping him outside from 11am-5pm so I dont use a UVB light (should I?), then when the temperature starts to get at around 97 degrees and up i move it up a bit till it cools down to 90ish degree. There is always a cool side and a warm side, I put half on the mixing tub under the shade which is usually around 77-84 degrees and the warm side is usually 95-100. Humidity for San Jose CA is usually 60% and above but I often mist his cypress mulch, and his plastic hide with sphagnum moss, the the humidity there is about 65% but the whole tub humidity is usually at a constant 40-45%ish. I then take him inside, after 5pm and I put him in a special room where I use a humidifier and the whole room stays at a constant 70% humidity and the temperature at night is usually 77-82 degrees. He has a plastic hide, where the moss is and that stays humid, but he always has another hide where its just a cave. I soak him twice a day 10 mins.

The problem is I bought him from a reptile show, the guy had a booth next to the tortoise club of silicon valley, so I thought he affiliated with them, I've been trying to find his facebook, google, instagram and I don't see his name anywhere. I remember his banner, chris silveira reptile. He was happy to answer my questions at the show and was a nice guy, he gave me a free bag of pellets which I leave for my tortoise but he doesn't even bother smelling them. At the show I seen him feeding them lettuce, so I bought lettuce today and I plan on giving it to him tomorrow.

I got him on Saturday, I seen him eat Monday night at around 10pm I was so weirded out because I thought he would be sleeping then, He was on a small temporary enclosure and I moved him in the plastic tub tuesday, He doesn't even like to explore the plastic tub, I don't even think he has ever been at another side of the tub, All he does is hide in the cave. Could it be that he's still adapting to his new environment? He drinks water, but he will bite food BUT NEVER ACTUALLY EAT IT, he just walks away and goes back in the cave even after bringing him to the food bowl.


Sorry this is my very first "exotic" pet, and though I'm not knowledgeable about it, I am learning and trying my best to give my tortoise the proper care it needs. So please don't be afraid to school me. I would rather know than harm my tortoise.

Thank you for all your help, you seem to be the only one who respond to my post and I'm really grateful for that.

Dave Dela Rosa said:

Hello, I'm using a concrete mixing tub, the one that was recommended by tortoisetown and kamp kenan, http://www.homedepot.com/p/Plasgad-Black-Large-Concrete-Mixing-Tub-887102C/205451585
honestly, I've been keeping him outside from 11am-5pm so I dont use a UVB light (should I?), then when the temperature starts to get at around 97 degrees and up i move it up a bit till it cools down to 90ish degree. There is always a cool side and a warm side, I put half on the mixing tub under the shade which is usually around 77-84 degrees and the warm side is usually 95-100. Humidity for San Jose CA is usually 60% and above but I often mist his cypress mulch, and his plastic hide with sphagnum moss, the the humidity there is about 65% but the whole tub humidity is usually at a constant 40-45%ish. I then take him inside, after 5pm and I put him in a special room where I use a humidifier and the whole room stays at a constant 70% humidity and the temperature at night is usually 77-82 degrees. He has a plastic hide, where the moss is and that stays humid, but he always has another hide where its just a cave. I soak him twice a day 10 mins.

The problem is I bought him from a reptile show, the guy had a booth next to the tortoise club of silicon valley, so I thought he affiliated with them, I've been trying to find his facebook, google, instagram and I don't see his name anywhere. I remember his banner, chris silveira reptile. He was happy to answer my questions at the show and was a nice guy, he gave me a free bag of pellets which I leave for my tortoise but he doesn't even bother smelling them. At the show I seen him feeding them lettuce, so I bought lettuce today and I plan on giving it to him tomorrow.

I got him on Saturday, I seen him eat Monday night at around 10pm I was so weirded out because I thought he would be sleeping then, He was on a small temporary enclosure and I moved him in the plastic tub tuesday, He doesn't even like to explore the plastic tub, I don't even think he has ever been at another side of the tub, All he does is hide in the cave. Could it be that he's still adapting to his new environment? He drinks water, but he will bite food BUT NEVER ACTUALLY EAT IT, he just walks away and goes back in the cave even after bringing him to the food bowl.


Sorry this is my very first "exotic" pet, and though I'm not knowledgeable about it, I am learning and trying my best to give my tortoise the proper care it needs. So please don't be afraid to school me. I would rather know than harm my tortoise.

Thank you for all your help, you seem to be the only one who respond to my post and I'm really grateful for that.

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This gives us some insight Dave.

Kenan is a nice guy with good intentions, and his videos are good quality and easy to watch, but he's not the guy to take advice from. His advice is lacking and it isn't going to work well for anyone except maybe his next door neighbor in south FL. In the same vein, do a search here on the forum for Tortoise Town and read the vendor reviews. That should make it obvious why their advice is not the way to go.

Low sided plastic tubs are the worst way to house this species. It is very difficult to maintain proper humidity and heat that way. Get a digital thermometer/hygrometer from Lowes or Home Depot and put it in your enclosure, and you'll see that humidity is much lower than you think in there. They need a closed chamber of some sort. Some people close in a large glass tank, while others buy or build a closed chamber with door that open in front. Here is one of mine: http://www.tortoiseforum.org/threads/closed-chambers.32333/
If you don't want to build one, you can buy one here: http://www.apcages.com/home/terrestrial/terrestrial.htm

Jodie linked this thread above, but here it is again for food suggestions: http://www.tortoiseforum.org/threads/for-those-who-have-a-young-sulcata.76744/
While that thread is full of good suggestions, your baby probably isn't going to know what any of that is. Start with romaine or spring mix and lets see if the tortoise will eat something that is probably more familiar. If you must use grocery store foods, favor endive and escarole, but use collard, mustard and turnip greens, cilantro, carrot tops, bok choy, water cress, and more for variety. The pellets he gave you probably need to be soaked and mixed with the greens. Babies won't eat dry pellets.

Give this one a good read through and see what is different in your set up:
http://www.tortoiseforum.org/threads/how-to-raise-a-healthy-sulcata-or-leopard-version-2-0.78361/

Keep the coolest part of the tub at 80 or a little above that, day and night. You'll probably need a CHE set on a thermostat to do this. Basking area should be 95-100 all day. Ambient should be no lower than 80 anytime, but its fine if it creeps into the low 90s during the day.

6 hours a day outside is no bueno for a baby. Keep it to no more than one hour for a while, and skip a day now and then until your baby gets bigger.

Here is why you don't buy from a guy at a reptile expo, unless they can answer a few questions the right way. We do not know if this is your case or not, but this is quite common, I'm sorry to say: http://www.tortoiseforum.org/threads/hatchling-failure-syndrome.23493/

Finally, here are some general tips that you might find useful: http://www.tortoiseforum.org/threads/beginner-mistakes.45180/

Please come back with more questions or comments when you've had a chance to take all this in. Hopefully, we will get your baby back on track and thriving!

Dave Dela Rosa said:

Sorry this is my very first "exotic" pet, and though I'm not knowledgeable about it, I am learning and trying my best to give my tortoise the proper care it needs. So please don't be afraid to school me. I would rather know than harm my tortoise.

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You have received a lot of good advice in this thread, but I just wanted to highlight one aspect of keeping a tortoise that many new tortoise/reptile keepers tend to struggle with...maintaining good temperatures. I'm sure you have done plenty of research, but for explanatory purposes...tortoises are cold blooded and so they depend on external sources to help them maintain their body temperature at a level that allows their bodies to digest food properly, fight off disease, etc...

In my experience, the sweet spot for leopards is in the low to mid 90's. An enclosure that has a basking area in the low 100's and a cool end in the mid to upper 80's seems to do well for a young leopard tortoise and allows them to maintain their bodies in the "sweet spot" range. Invest in one or two quality temperature gauges. The small dial types that you can get from Petco are not good. Look for one at any major home improvement store that has a remote probe and can measure humidity as well. I use this type: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B001B35APA/?tag=exoticpetnetw-20

In addition to the temperature and humidity gauge, a temperature gun is a good investment and will help spot check things in your enclosure.

Balancing a good temperature range can be a bit tricky when you factor in humidity and day/night lighting cycles, but the information you have been provided with should help you get started.

There are many other important aspects of tortoise keeping, but maintaining adequate temperatures is just one area I feel needs to have a lot of attention given to. Keep reading and feel free to ask us any questions as you go along.

Neal said:

: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B001B35APA/?tag=exoticpetnetw-20 .

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Neal how do you deploy these? The outside sensor at one end of an enclosure and the inside monitor/display at the other end - kind of thing?

Will said:

Neal how do you deploy these? The outside sensor at one end of an enclosure and the inside monitor/display at the other end - kind of thing?

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When I set up a new enclosure I usually use a couple, one on the cold end and one on the warm end until I dial the temperatures in at where I want them. You could easily just use the probe in one end and the monitor/display on the other end, I just so happen to have a couple few of these lying around. A temperature gun helps me check the temps in-between the cool and warm ends.

After the enclosure is dialed in and I am comfortable with things after a couple weeks, I usually remove the warm end probe just so it's out of the way. I always keep the cool end probe in the enclosure, that way I can just check it every time I walk by. If the temp reading in the cool end is good, I know the entire enclosure is OK.

I should add that the probes sit on top of a tupperware lid. I've always felt like if I placed them right on the soil, they might be giving me an inaccurate reading. I'm more concerned with the ambient conditions and not necessarily with the surface humidity or temperature readings.

Hey fellas thanks for the response once again! Couple things, I live in sunny california, i use an infrared thermo gun for my tortoise and his body temperature seems to be at the perfect ambient. I also do have a digital thermometer i bought from orchard,and one stick on on which is accurate as well and aligns with the digital temp, I have two hygrometer one on the cool side and one on the hot side, both are reading the same humidity. In the room hes in i keep it particularly humid, so should I still get an enclosed one? And a serious question, said why do I need one when the room humidity is at ample humidity? I really feel like the breeder just sold me a sick tortoise ☹️ But i will take th advices with food and the temepatures

You may need to find out what the tortoise was eating at the previous owner's. then feed the same thing and slowly, over time, add new items to the menu.

Will said:

Neal how do you deploy these? The outside sensor at one end of an enclosure and the inside monitor/display at the other end - kind of thing?

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Just a caution - I use some of these and had several in the past. If you get more than a few of the same one's Neal is showing, they will start to interfere with each other and you will not be sure which sensor the base unit is reading.

Dave Dela Rosa said:

Hey fellas thanks for the response once again! Couple things, I live in sunny california, i use an infrared thermo gun for my tortoise and his body temperature seems to be at the perfect ambient. I also do have a digital thermometer i bought from orchard,and one stick on on which is accurate as well and aligns with the digital temp, I have two hygrometer one on the cool side and one on the hot side, both are reading the same humidity. In the room hes in i keep it particularly humid, so should I still get an enclosed one? And a serious question, said why do I need one when the room humidity is at ample humidity? I really feel like the breeder just sold me a sick tortoise ☹️ But i will take th advices with food and the temepatures

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The thermo gun sounds pretty cool...I may look into that. Sounds like you are set with your temperature and humidity reading devices.

I don't have a huge problem with the humidity levels you described above. They are only slightly lower than what we normally recommend here on TFO, so if I were you I would provide a hide that bumps the ambient humidity up to at least 80%. To me, the temperature ranges you described may lead to an issue, and that's where a closed chamber would be extremely helpful in your situation.

Along with mirroring the breeders feeding method, I would also recommend bumping up the temperatures a bit as that encourages them to eat more. 77 - 82 degrees is acceptable for a healthy active tortoise that's a bit older than a hatchling, but if yours is not eating he may need it a little more heat to get kickstarted.

Well a little update! My little tortoise ate today when I took him outside, he ate a lettuce, wheat grass and some jade. Its a huge relief, as I dropped the lettuce and he charged towards it, that's the most active I've seen him in. After he ate he went straight back to sleep but it was a good sign seeing him eat, should i still transition him to a tank and if I do would a 48" tank suffice for the time being?

Dave Dela Rosa said:

. In the room hes in i keep it particularly humid, so should I still get an enclosed one? And a serious question, said why do I need one when the room humidity is at ample humidity?

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I think Neal answered this, but I want to elaborate:

We use artificial electric heat lamps and CHEs to keep temps where they need to be. With an open top, you get a lot of evaporation. This evaporation cools things, so you add more heat which dries things even more and also dries out the baby's carapace, which contributes to pyramiding. Even in a room with 99% humidity, it will be much drier anywhere near or under the heating elements, which is where the tortoise spends most of its day. Closing in the top, or using a closed chamber, allows you to maintain warmer temps with a lot less desiccating electric heat, and it traps the humidity where you want it: Inside the enclosure. Fighting room temp and ambient room humidity is a losing battle. A closed chamber makes everything easier and more efficient for you, and much better for the tortoise.

A side note: My reptile room is lined with cages full of damp substrate. It has a concrete floor, so I constantly dump water on to it for evaporation and ambient humidity maintenance. Even with puddles on the floor and the whole room filled with damp substrate, I have a tough time keeping humidity above 50-60% in our dry climate here. I used to run two humidifiers in there, and those didn't help much either. For you to have a normal room in a normal house in dry CA, 70% ambient humidity seems pretty high to me. Is it a fish tank room? That would certainly do it, and keep it warm too.

Glad your tortoise ate something.

Hey and I was gonna buy a 45/50 galloon tank I'm getting for my friend that is selling it for 20 bucks! Questions again:

1)When do I move him to the terrarium if he's already eating in the bin? I'm really scared he will get stress and not eat again for a couple of days If I move him to another enclosure.
2) since as of now I don't use a UVB light, I usually take him out at 11pm-5pm and I was wondering if he's getting enough "daytime light" I know 20-30 minutes of sun is getting him enough UVB but I know in a terrarium I need to keep the light on 10-12 hours a day. So that replicates the amount of daytime they get. My question is even though my tortoise is getting enough UVB from the sun is he getting enough "daytime light?" I know in the wild tortoise are use to habing a day and a night, and I was wondering if the 7 hours is too short to be considered a "day" for my tortoise as of right now.

Dave Dela Rosa said:

Hey and I was gonna buy a 45/50 galloon tank I'm getting for my friend that is selling it for 20 bucks! Questions again:

1)When do I move him to the terrarium if he's already eating in the bin? I'm really scared he will get stress and not eat again for a couple of days If I move him to another enclosure.
2) since as of now I don't use a UVB light, I usually take him out at 11pm-5pm and I was wondering if he's getting enough "daytime light" I know 20-30 minutes of sun is getting him enough UVB but I know in a terrarium I need to keep the light on 10-12 hours a day. So that replicates the amount of daytime they get. My question is even though my tortoise is getting enough UVB from the sun is he getting enough "daytime light?" I know in the wild tortoise are use to habing a day and a night, and I was wondering if the 7 hours is too short to be considered a "day" for my tortoise as of right now.

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The tank should be fine and moving him shouldn't be a big deal.

7 hours is not enough "day" for them. They need at least 12-13 hours. I use a timer. Its much easier. 6:30am to 7:30 pm. I hope we've successfully convinced you to not leave your baby outside for 6 hours a day...

Hey tom! Thanks yes you convinced me to have a closed chamber, just wondering if I were to get another leopard tortoise will the 50 gallon tank suffice? And I forgot to answer your question, it is humid in the house for some reason our kitchen is at 70% humidity all the time, its really hot, i thought it was the hygrometer that was wrong but i went and bought a digital one and it still said the same 70% humidity. But i do live in the bay area were close by the water.