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Not necessarily applicable but you might find the following of interest:Page 255 left column half way down. But please do read the whole thing. We can debate the merits here, and argue over the best name for my new pet tortoise, both 'advanced' topics.
Humans not tortoises, they kept bouncing around on what concentration they found, ng/dl and mg for kg etc. It's hard to read. But I guess you already know that. Some had a co-reported calcium blood level some did not. Those that showed the worst clinical signs were accidental overdoses of young children of the order of 100 to 150 times the recommended (bottle instructions) amount to consume.Not necessarily applicable but you might find the following of interest:
Vitamin D Toxicity: A 16-Year Retrospective Study at an Academic Medical Center
So this paper reports blood level of some of the D3 things (D3 is created and used and all those sub- or super- components can be measured and used to infer D3) as well as D3 itself.
These authors are looking at tortoises with access to sun versus tortoises that had access to UVB emitting artificial light sources.
The kick is that the Hetenyl paper never reports any blood chemistry, and soft tissue calcification can be easily overlooked in x-rays. They could have ended up with tortoises that had calcified muscle tissue. That the mushy shell individuals tuned around and had hardened shells give some opportunity to think 50,000 IU/kg/day is not too much for a mushy shell tortoises.
I would have liked to see their 2000 IU/kg/day, and a few other increments before jumping to 50,000 IU/kg/day, like 2000, 10,000, 25,000, then 50,000 along with blood chemistry at day 0, Day 30, day 90, day 180, and day 365. That would have been so much more rigorous.
The quote from Madders book is feces, mammals get this much so reptiles should get that much. Dude how about taking into account that herps are exothermic, and tortoises have proportionally more 'skeleton'. That's such a crap reference for people to rely on.
Humans not tortoises, they kept bouncing around on what concentration they found, ng/dl and mg for kg etc. It's hard to read. But I guess you already know that. Some had a co-reported calcium blood level some did not. Those that showed the worst clinical signs were accidental overdoses of young children of the order of 100 to 150 times the recommended (bottle instructions) amount to consume.
So what was your intent to post this here? Please explain.
It is my understanding that yes it does, but I will defer to anyone with more experience that says otherwise.Just jumping in here, but does Mazuri have enough D3 in it as to make the D3 supplement irrelevant?
It is my understanding that yes it does, but I will defer to anyone with more experience that says otherwise.
Bottom line is: It is extreamly rare to get true Vitamin D toxicity from Vitamin D supplements based on this human study.
Out of 73,000 patients with elevated 25(OH)D, only 4 truly had Vitamin D toxicity. Two of the patients were children getting liquid vitamin D drops in excessive quantities. One was a 62 yo who was taking excessive (50,000 IU of Vit D) daily in drop form, and the last was a 70 yo reportedly taking 1000 IU daily in tablet form with a questionable history.
There are several concerns with the study. 25(OH)D was measured (as opposed to the hormonal 1,25 dihydroxyyvitamin D (D3,active form)) for technical reasons. It was a retrospective study. It does encompass a lot of cases of elevated Vitamin D. It would have been nice if ionized Ca and PTH were measured simultaneously.
This is out of my working knowledge and I can only speculate why there was not more Vitamin D3 toxicity. Apparently some mechanisms functioned to prevent symptomatic toxicity. There are positive and negative feedbacks in Vit D3 synthesis and catabolism. Vitamin D receptors (VDR) are in most tissue and transcription is comodulated. There are different analogs of D3, some of which are synthesized and used for osteoporosis Rx. Production of D3 from other than skin/proximal kidney is apparently under control of many factors. Control of catabolism is multifactorial.
When they start talking about nutrition facts in the table on page 2, what do they mean by "crude ash?"Page 255 left column half way down. But please do read the whole thing. We can debate the merits here, and argue over the best name for my new pet tortoise, both 'advanced' topics.
I let it soak in water until it is completely broken down, and then thoroughly blend it in with their greens. If you use the right amount of water, it will clump against it in small amounts. This way it is completely covering all of their food. I do this with ground limestone every day on their food.That's assuming a tort will eat the Mazuri (or derivative thereof).