Sulcata hatchling Overeating?

[bigjsmashman]

I was wondering if Torts can overeat?
My baby is almost 8 weeks old,and eats and eats and eats.it seems like he is always in his dish .
He will eat ,go lay down for a bit ,then eat again.
I refill his dish when I see it empty,3 -4 times a day.
Is this too much?

 

[Tom]

Ooh... very debatable. Sulcatas eat and eat and eat. If conditions are right (big if) it is questionable if this is really "bad" for them or not. In the past we would have all immediately said, "Yes. That's too much. Slow growth is best." I'm not so sure any more...

My strategy for baby sulcatas is this: Feed them a pile of good greens about the same size as they are in the morning. If he eats it all up right away within a few minutes, then give him a little more in the evening. When weather permits, I just put them outside and they graze as much as they want on grass and weeds.

Many people are debating this very topic right now and to be honest, no one really knows for sure what the right answer is yet. We are on the verge of many breakthroughs in tortoise knowledge right now and nutrition is one of these areas. Both content and quantity.

One cautionary note. If your little man has a big appetite and is growing fast, DO make sure you use a fair amount of calcium supplementation and have a great UV source. Sunshine is best, but using a mercury vapor bulb indoors certainly won't hut anything.

Also, I think you've seen this already, but here is my idea of the right conditions:
http://www.tortoiseforum.org/Thread-How-To-Raise-Sulcata-Hatchlings-and-Babies#axzz1Gh5QGZ8C

 

[bigjsmashman]

Ooh... very debatable. Sulcatas eat and eat and eat. If conditions are right (big if) it is questionable if this is really "bad" for them or not. In the past we would have all immediately said, "Yes. That's too much. Slow growth is best." I'm not so sure any more...

My strategy for baby sulcatas is this: Feed them a pile of good greens about the same size as they are in the morning. If he eats it all up right away within a few minutes, then give him a little more in the evening. When weather permits, I just put them outside and they graze as much as they want on grass and weeds.

Many people are debating this very topic right now and to be honest, no one really knows for sure what the right answer is yet. We are on the verge of many breakthroughs in tortoise knowledge right now and nutrition is one of these areas. Both content and quantity.

One cautionary note. If your little man has a big appetite and is growing fast, DO make sure you use a fair amount of calcium supplementation and have a great UV source. Sunshine is best, but using a mercury vapor bulb indoors certainly won't hut anything.

Also, I think you've seen this already, but here is my idea of the right conditions:
http://www.tortoiseforum.org/Thread-How-To-Raise-Sulcata-Hatchlings-and-Babies#axzz1Gh5QGZ8C

I know when my boys were babies we fed them whenever they were hungry,
By no means am I comparing my tort to a human baby LOL,but i was kinda thinking that if he wasnt hungry or didn't need it he wouldn't eat.
Hes eating right now ! lol.If I allow him to graze outside all day then i guess its kinda the same as me letting him eat indoors all day.

 

[Tom]

Well not really. Outdoors they have a lot of distractions and the business of thermoregulation will often slow down their eating more than it would indoors. Plus the stuff they are eating outdoors tends to be much better for them as far as nutrition and fiber. Grocery store foods are okay, but tend to be "wet" and lacking fiber.

You have to understand that in the wild they only experience periods of "bounty" for a few months out of the year, if that. So as captive animals, they are still "programmed" to take advantage of each bounty, and totally gorge themselves, because it might be their last good meal for a long time. Its is generally accepted as best to feed a "moderate" amount and not let them stuff themselves to the gills with their favorite foods every day. There is a lot of wiggle room in the term moderate, and it sure is fun to feed them and watch them eat, huh? Just be aware that it CAN be too much of a good thing. Get a scale and chart his growth in grams and then we can tell you if he's growing at a "normal" rate or way faster than everybody else. What does he weight at 8 weeks? BTW, kitchen scales can be found at most department store pretty cheap.

 

[bigjsmashman]

Well not really. Outdoors they have a lot of distractions and the business of thermoregulation will often slow down their eating more than it would indoors. Plus the stuff they are eating outdoors tends to be much better for them as far as nutrition and fiber. Grocery store foods are okay, but tend to be "wet" and lacking fiber.

You have to understand that in the wild they only experience periods of "bounty" for a few months out of the year, if that. So as captive animals, they are still "programmed" to take advantage of each bounty, and totally gorge themselves, because it might be their last good meal for a long time. Its is generally accepted as best to feed a "moderate" amount and not let them stuff themselves to the gills with their favorite foods every day. There is a lot of wiggle room in the term moderate, and it sure is fun to feed them and watch them eat, huh? Just be aware that it CAN be too much of a good thing. Get a scale and chart his growth in grams and then we can tell you if he's growing at a "normal" rate or way faster than everybody else. What does he weight at 8 weeks? BTW, kitchen scales can be found at most department store pretty cheap.

Thanks for the great input! That helps alot.
I didnt even consider putting him on the scale LOL
I just weighed him.
He is 71 grams.
I don't let him outside yet.
Everyone is telling me not to pick him up,or to watch his temp,and it is still way to cold here to be letting him outside.I have been giving him lots of grass and certain weeds i know to be edible from outside though.
I plan on building a small basking enclosure this weekend.

 

[Tom]

That's on the fast side of normal for growth if you're sure he's 8 weeks. Its a great indicator that he's healthy too. You'll definitely want to use a MVB indoors and make sure to supplement with calcium sprinkled on is food every two or three days.

I often use those cheap plastic kiddie pools for sunning babies. Put in some substrate, make sure there is some shade at all times, keep the predators away and you are good to go. Even when the temps are as low as 60 outside, its stays in the mid 80's in my kiddie pool on that dark substrate. I temp them several times on those cool days and somehow, they get their body temps into the 90's in that sun. Ooh! That reminds me. Do you have an infrared temp gun yet. They are great fun and indispensable for checking surface temps.

Anyhow, sunshine is very good for them and very important.

 

[bigjsmashman]

That's on the fast side of normal for growth if you're sure he's 8 weeks. Its a great indicator that he's healthy too. You'll definitely want to use a MVB indoors and make sure to supplement with calcium sprinkled on is food every two or three days.

I often use those cheap plastic kiddie pools for sunning babies. Put in some substrate, make sure there is some shade at all times, keep the predators away and you are good to go. Even when the temps are as low as 60 outside, its stays in the mid 80's in my kiddie pool on that dark substrate. I temp them several times on those cool days and somehow, they get their body temps into the 90's in that sun. Ooh! That reminds me. Do you have an infrared temp gun yet. They are great fun and indispensable for checking surface temps.

Anyhow, sunshine is very good for them and very important.

He was "born" Jan 14.
I will try the kiddie pool.We have a 8 foot privacy fence in our back yard,so not too worried about predators .Only seen small birds,never any jays,or crows.
I dont have a temp gun,but I will add it too my ever expanding list of Tort items.
Thanks for all the help.

 

[Tom]

Well you've got a healthy one there. Good luck with him and you are welcome.

 

[Torty Mom]

Welcome to TFO! Sounds like you have a good eater on your hands!!

 

[ALDABRAMAN]

Welcome, he sounds healthy for sure.

 

[bigjsmashman]

Welcome, he sounds healthy for sure.

I sure hope so .
I guess I will limit him to 3 a day and see how it goes for awhile.
Today it was literally every time I looked in there he was eating.
He is very active though.So im sure he will be fine.
poo looks good too.(If poo can ever look good LOL.)

 

[Yvonne G]

Just one thing to add...in the wild they'll walk for miles while they eat. So if your baby isn't getting enough exercise, it might not be such a good idea to feed him too much.

 

[tortoisenerd]

I agree with a large enclosure to exercise and a healthy diet (low calorie for torts...greens, weeds, good lettuces, flowers, etc), its ok to feed a hatchling as much as they want. Its a problem if you have a small enclosure, high calorie diet, etc. I only find the need to put out food once, maybe twice a day. Once you know how much your tort is eating on average, put that much out each morning (adding a bit as they get bigger). If you get home and the hatchling is still awake and there is no food, feed a snack sized portion. I see no reason to need to spend the time feeding 3 or 4 times in one day. I also don't care if I waste a bit of lettuce (maybe you do).

Once your tort is an adult, you can see if you need to cut back on feedings a bit to help them maintain weight. Torts, especially hatchlings, will seem like they eat all day...this would be even more pronounced in the wild as they would have to walk and graze all day to get enough (with such a low calorie diet they need a large amount...I agree you will probably see your tort eating a pile of greens about its size). They seem to get more of a hang of it as they grow up, spending less time to eat the same amount in proportion to their size (they need to learn to bite and such). In captivity, it also takes longer because the leaves are cut, not attached, which makes them more difficult to eat.

 

[bigjsmashman]

Just one thing to add...in the wild they'll walk for miles while they eat. So if your baby isn't getting enough exercise, it might not be such a good idea to feed him too much.

I thought about that,but he has a big enclosure and is very active.
I think he does walk miles. lol.
Seriously though .I understand what you are saying.I am going to monitor his weight and growth.