Baoh said:
Awsome pics.....
Some of my tortoises
- Thread starter Baoh
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Awsome pics.....
Yes, I mainly use coir for the baby and juvenile tubs. I am using cypress mulch for the subadults and adults, but plan to add top soil to that. I have been told of a few cases of coir-based impaction, where baby tortoises just ate a ton of it for whatever reason, so I plan to mix soil with the coir, too, although I have not had any problems. I keep a repti-fogger on one end with the outlet beneath the heat radiation of a CHE. That end has the substrate generally kept moist. I keep an MVB on the other end with some dry substrate. I sometimes add a regular CFL or incandescent (I prefer incandescent, but I dislike the relatively frequent replacement) to the side of the middle. Substrate gets added water, simply poured in until the entire enclosure is wet, but not soupy, around every week or every other week. Every other week is more typical than weekly. For larger juveniles, I provide a ramped water dish. For smaller ones, I tend to just put a group of overturned lids beneath the MVB when setting up the food dishes and place one to two babies in each one after I have filled them with warm water. They drink, clamber out, and then go eat. Then I remove the lids. I am thinking about finding a nicer water dish setup that is permanently left in the baby enclosure.
I do not seek to achieve high humidity everywhere all of the time. I have no quarrel with doing so, but I want the animals to have the option to sit in a dry space if they feel the need. Since babies tend to "dig in" both in captivity and nature, I emphasize a moist subterranean substrate layer. I also want to avoid fungal infections, and I assume this (dry area and some dry surface) is working in favor of that avoidance.
I have also stopped using spring mix and have replaced it with baby lettuces. I did not realize how much spinach was present in spring mix. Unfortunately, I have a leopard (the one you see with the Burmese star) that seemed to be getting more lethargic and weaker. It started to really progress. I could not figure out what was wrong. Its locations in the enclosure were fine (not too much time spent near or away from moisture, heat, and cooler areas). It ate, although it stopped eating Mazuri. The amount of food it ate was decreasing. It seemed better after baby food soaks and soaks in general, but it was always a short burst of improvement. It was negative for parasites. It had more than adequate UVB. No RI symptoms like bubbling, a runny nose, or labored breathing. Stools were properly formed. I could get it to eat better when I shredded spring mix and mashed it into soaked Mazuri, but it would start declining again if I did straight spring mix. I sat with it for a few hours and tried some things. First, I separated all of the components of the spring mix into respective leaf types. I noticed a significant spinach quantity and was concerned about possible oxalic acid issues. I placed the seperated piles before the tortoise. After rousing it and a soak, it went straight for the spinach pile. I tried rearranging the locations of the piles to disfavor proximity to the spinach pile. It would walk over or around the other piles, ignoring them to get to the spinach pile. I remixed the piles together and then set the mix before the tortoise. The tortoise picked out the spinach preferentially. I shredded the pile and set it back before the tortoise. The tortoise then would consume all leaf types because it was so finely mixed, it could not pick out the spinach. The animal was getting quite weak by now. I went out and bought baby lettuces. and gave no solid food to the animal for two days, but I soaked it twice daily with baby food soaks to keep nutrition going in. I then provided baby lettuces, which it tore into. Its activity, weight, muscle tone, and everything else have since improved dramatically. I am sprinkling Miner-all on the baby lettuces every other day, as the animal may have a degree of calcium deficiency if the problem was actually oxalic acid (I do not know; all I know is that it had a problem when preferentially consuming spinach and has improved dramatically with the removal of spinach from the diet). I had been planning to eventually sell this animal if it proved robust enough, but its decline prevented that. If things improve, its health fully restores, and it continues to grow well now that it is growing again, I will be able to let it go to a new owner in the Spring. Outside of this one baby, I have never observed this particular issue in my many animals, but a process of elimination helped clarify things for me.
I do not seek to achieve high humidity everywhere all of the time. I have no quarrel with doing so, but I want the animals to have the option to sit in a dry space if they feel the need. Since babies tend to "dig in" both in captivity and nature, I emphasize a moist subterranean substrate layer. I also want to avoid fungal infections, and I assume this (dry area and some dry surface) is working in favor of that avoidance.
I have also stopped using spring mix and have replaced it with baby lettuces. I did not realize how much spinach was present in spring mix. Unfortunately, I have a leopard (the one you see with the Burmese star) that seemed to be getting more lethargic and weaker. It started to really progress. I could not figure out what was wrong. Its locations in the enclosure were fine (not too much time spent near or away from moisture, heat, and cooler areas). It ate, although it stopped eating Mazuri. The amount of food it ate was decreasing. It seemed better after baby food soaks and soaks in general, but it was always a short burst of improvement. It was negative for parasites. It had more than adequate UVB. No RI symptoms like bubbling, a runny nose, or labored breathing. Stools were properly formed. I could get it to eat better when I shredded spring mix and mashed it into soaked Mazuri, but it would start declining again if I did straight spring mix. I sat with it for a few hours and tried some things. First, I separated all of the components of the spring mix into respective leaf types. I noticed a significant spinach quantity and was concerned about possible oxalic acid issues. I placed the seperated piles before the tortoise. After rousing it and a soak, it went straight for the spinach pile. I tried rearranging the locations of the piles to disfavor proximity to the spinach pile. It would walk over or around the other piles, ignoring them to get to the spinach pile. I remixed the piles together and then set the mix before the tortoise. The tortoise picked out the spinach preferentially. I shredded the pile and set it back before the tortoise. The tortoise then would consume all leaf types because it was so finely mixed, it could not pick out the spinach. The animal was getting quite weak by now. I went out and bought baby lettuces. and gave no solid food to the animal for two days, but I soaked it twice daily with baby food soaks to keep nutrition going in. I then provided baby lettuces, which it tore into. Its activity, weight, muscle tone, and everything else have since improved dramatically. I am sprinkling Miner-all on the baby lettuces every other day, as the animal may have a degree of calcium deficiency if the problem was actually oxalic acid (I do not know; all I know is that it had a problem when preferentially consuming spinach and has improved dramatically with the removal of spinach from the diet). I had been planning to eventually sell this animal if it proved robust enough, but its decline prevented that. If things improve, its health fully restores, and it continues to grow well now that it is growing again, I will be able to let it go to a new owner in the Spring. Outside of this one baby, I have never observed this particular issue in my many animals, but a process of elimination helped clarify things for me.
Thanks for that, Baoh. I quit using spring mix too because I noticed that it had a very high percentage of spinach in it. I now grow my own, and include the Santa Barbara mix in with mine. Santa Barbara mix is escarole, endive and raddiccio.
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Thanks again for your information! I appreciate your time and thoughts!
Yeah, I also will buy spring mixes but in my area they usually don't have a ton of spinach, but I always pick it out anyways.
Yeah, I also will buy spring mixes but in my area they usually don't have a ton of spinach, but I always pick it out anyways.
How can I miss to comment on this. They are all very beautiful torts and you seem to have your own opinion of mixing tortoise of different species. Not to be mistaken, I would totally agree with anyone mixing their torts if they find no harm in doing so.
Also, I always enjoy watching large varieties of torts, and you have quite a bunch!!!
Also, I always enjoy watching large varieties of torts, and you have quite a bunch!!!
Thanks.
Updates:
1) The little Gpp het sunset hypo that was having trouble is now consuming Mazuri, too, so I am much relieved. Muscle tone is getting better every day, too, and its activity has increased substantially.
2) My adult leopcata/hybrid displayed some ramming activity (against me) today. She ran up curiously, I crouched down and placed my palm before her, and she would lurch forward and ram my palm. My female sulcatas sometimes do this, but only if I shove them around a little bit, too, to slightly antagonize them. I do not have any large adult leopard tortoises to compare this behavior to. For those of you with adult female leopard tortoises, do yours ever do this? I am thinking it may be sulcata driven, but I do not have the other half of the experience necessary to make such a conclusion on my own. Does your big girl ever do anything like this, Dennis?
Updates:
1) The little Gpp het sunset hypo that was having trouble is now consuming Mazuri, too, so I am much relieved. Muscle tone is getting better every day, too, and its activity has increased substantially.
2) My adult leopcata/hybrid displayed some ramming activity (against me) today. She ran up curiously, I crouched down and placed my palm before her, and she would lurch forward and ram my palm. My female sulcatas sometimes do this, but only if I shove them around a little bit, too, to slightly antagonize them. I do not have any large adult leopard tortoises to compare this behavior to. For those of you with adult female leopard tortoises, do yours ever do this? I am thinking it may be sulcata driven, but I do not have the other half of the experience necessary to make such a conclusion on my own. Does your big girl ever do anything like this, Dennis?
Did you sell all your Sudanese?
Sorry, No, my big female is quite demure and a little shy. If I put my hand in front of her, she will retract at first. Hrothgar, my male, however, seems to take great delight in ramming my feet almost everyday. I also have to be careful wearing sandals around him. He will bite them and my toes if given half a chance. He is very bold, and if I tap his nose, he is just as likely to push my finger as retract.
Baoh said:
Appreciate the input.
Mine has become the dominant female in her living space. She will ram me or my hand, but does not seem to ram her cagemate. Her cagemate is a very assertive female sulcata het of comparable size. If the sulcata tries to take from the food the hybrid is eating at and gets in her face, the hybrid will not ram, but will Sumo-shove the sulcata all the way to other end of the enclosure and then return to her food.
Also, my 4" female Gpp het sunset hypo does something like this. Even against animals 10" scl and obviously much heavier than she is, she will go to their flank and try to shove and flip animals that get in her face while she is eating. Even if they block her food by accident. This only happens once in a while, but it is interesting to observe when it does.
Both of these feeding-related activities only take place if a dish or concentration of food, like some kind of large piece of food, is involved. When food is in multiple locations or is spread about or when grazing, this does not seem to happen.
Mine has become the dominant female in her living space. She will ram me or my hand, but does not seem to ram her cagemate. Her cagemate is a very assertive female sulcata het of comparable size. If the sulcata tries to take from the food the hybrid is eating at and gets in her face, the hybrid will not ram, but will Sumo-shove the sulcata all the way to other end of the enclosure and then return to her food.
Also, my 4" female Gpp het sunset hypo does something like this. Even against animals 10" scl and obviously much heavier than she is, she will go to their flank and try to shove and flip animals that get in her face while she is eating. Even if they block her food by accident. This only happens once in a while, but it is interesting to observe when it does.
Both of these feeding-related activities only take place if a dish or concentration of food, like some kind of large piece of food, is involved. When food is in multiple locations or is spread about or when grazing, this does not seem to happen.
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