Small tortoises?

[RiDaGeckoGuy]

Hello!

Sorry, that this thread ends like that, with accusions and aggression. You are right, there is some toxicity, but it has its reasons:
many people who operated rescues or just have been around tortoises and this forum for years have seen too many cases of bad care, neglection, have seen too many people who was reluctant to follow proper care advice and their tortoises died or suffered.

From this thread I see, that you indeed do the best you can and did your own research on care. Following the advice given here (like separating tortoises or setting a closed chamber) is not about throwing money at the problem, but about caring about tortoise needs. Sometimes you have to cut corners and make less optimal decisions: like not buying a fancy enclosure but building your own out of scrapyard furniture. And that's fine if it serves the purpose.

Now, to the topic:
Getting a third tortoise won't magicaly solve the space problem. Even if you get 2 females and one male, they still need lots of space to get away from each other. With a small indoors enclosure and growing tortoises things can get even worse.

Also, you will need some quarantine space: when adding a new tortoise to a group or later to isolate a sick or injured one.

And "running costs" for another tortoise are not zero (food, vet, heated outdoor shelter and such).

For me it seems that making separate enclosures for your tortoises is easier, cheaper and more beneficial. If you have any concerns like lack of room space, no money for a second equipment set and so - let's try to work around them.

Ok and I can’t build it out of scraps with giant coons and possums plus the occasional coyote always hanging around

 

[Tom]

Yeah lots of you are trying to help and caring for two tortoises that were just unexpectedly threw into my care is hard compared to unexpected chickens and leopard geckos I am kinda reading this with thinking of a hateful voice reading it but I think that’s because I joined a chicken community and they are all kind and very understanding and will give me makeshift solutions that are easy so I am sorry maggie but you did seem to come off hateful so that’s why I did that I do care about their needs and did as many things stated as soon as possible but I will need time, money and good predator proof ideas for this spring and I will need to figure something out for my -20 Fahrenheit winters

Thanks for understanding. We all mean well, but different people have different ways of getting their point across. Some people over the years have loved my direct, no-nonsense approach. Other people have been highly offended and felt insulted. I certainly meant no insult, but they perceived one none the less.

In the end, its the tortoises that matter, and we want to see you succeed.

 

[Alex and the Redfoot]

Ok and I can’t build it out of scraps with giant coons and possums plus the occasional coyote always hanging around

If we are talking about outdoors enclosure and you have lots of hungry predators around then yes, it should be done in secure manner.

I was talking about indoors. Maybe I misunderstood something, but you have -20F winters and keep two sulcatas indoors together in a small enclosure. You mentioned that you plan to get them 6x6 ft table and I feel it's better to split it into two 3x6 enclosures than to have three tortoises in a one larger setup.

 

[RiDaGeckoGuy]

If we are talking about outdoors enclosure and you have lots of hungry predators around then yes, it should be done in secure manner.

I was talking about indoors. Maybe I misunderstood something, but you have -20F winters and keep two sulcatas indoors together in a small enclosure. You mentioned that you plan to get them 6x6 ft table and I feel it's better to split it into two 3x6 enclosures than to have three tortoises in a one larger setup.

That could work how many hides would I need I think I’m going to go with half pots and some succulents and other tortoise edible plants in pots in the cage with them and each have a board in the middle and when I make the outdoor cage I will put a piece of wood all the way down in the middle and lots of plants like succulents and hibiscus plus maybe some bonsai money trees for shade since the leaves have no toxins and I will probably make one house in the middle that both will have a half with a board in the middle. I do think I will extra reinforcement like hardware cloth and stuff of that sort. If any of you could find a cheap walk in green house that would be great help thank you

 

[Alex and the Redfoot]

For indoor enclosure you need one "humid hide" in the colder part and some shady zones near basking area. Half-pots take a lot of precious space, but you may try to bury them in the substrate, so they can be walked over. Potted plants take lots of space as well, but you may use hanging pots, or wall-mounted pots. Succulents might not have a chance to survive - they grow too slow and tortoises chew them to the root. Nice options are spider plants, wheat grass and boston fern.

For the outdoors you will need to make heated insulated night box. Insulation would help to hide from heat in summer and to keep tortoises warm at nights. I don't know what plants can survive -20F winters (bushes native to your area are the best, probably)...

For the greenhouses you can check Amazon or Tractor Supply. I can't tell where are the better options and pricing - you can check yourself, according to your budget and space requirements. Maybe plain polycarbonate sheets from HomeDepot or Lowes can work for you too (if you have time, skills and will to build your own).

 

[Maggie3fan]

Ok and I can’t build it out of scraps with giant coons and possums plus the occasional coyote always hanging around

It sounds to me like you want a creep of tortoises, if I'm wrong I apologize...but if I'm right...one gardeners shed, (in my case) can house 4 tortoises. Why don't you think about just going big from the start?
it might look like this...but the ambient temperature stays around 85
heated and insulated 12'x20'...this is the start of winter. Right now I only have 2 torts in there now. But if I need space to quarantine something I have it. You might think about it...damned easier than a small box. You can see the people door and 1 doggie door in this picture
I can keep 4 tortoises in here. Ambient temp stays mostly 85 degrees. Anyhow ...go big or stay home...lol kidding

 

[RiDaGeckoGuy]

I found a 6x10 greenhouse on Amazon and I wonder if I can do that

 

[RiDaGeckoGuy]

Oh and I live in south east Oklahoma it’s really really humid and rainy and the hottest it gets is 115 and the coldest is -20

 

[Alex and the Redfoot]

In a short-term, greenhouse can help to extend outside time for your tortoises. You just need to watch temperatures closely (in the greenhouse itself and tortoise limbs/shell with a temperature gun). If you will make insulated and heated shelter boxes in the greenhouse, so they can hide and warmup themselves to 85F - this would make things even easier. I doubt that any greenhouse (even commercial ones) can cope with -20F temperatures. And just a reminder, that UVB is filtered out by plastic and glass.

The long-term solution is to have large (huge) barn or shed for them with heating and insulation and UVB sources. Probably, custom built. For the grown-up sulcata, I'm afraid even 6x10 ft is a way too small. And heating costs can be skyrocketing. If you have spare rooms/attic/basement/garage in your house - that could work with proper preparations.

Raising non-brumating giant desert tortoises in your climate is an incredibly hard and expensive task. I wish you success with that endeavor.

Here is one of the "warm shed" examples to estimate costs and get an idea: https://tortoiseforum.org/threads/planning-an-outdoor-winter-sulcata-shed.204226/

And here is the "night box" example: https://tortoiseforum.org/threads/double-door-night-box.129054/