Questions About Russian Tortoises and Temperature, Humidity, Feeding, and Bedding

[Pichoro]

Hi! My girlfriend and I are turtle lovers, and just acquired our first pet - a Russian Tortoise now named simply "Pete" during a sale at a Petsmart. We've wanted one for awhile and been waiting for the right time, and she decided the sale was an indicator that the time was right.

Unfortunately, living outside isn't much of an option for Pete where we are - Eastern Kentucky. It will soon be getting cold here. Very cold. We've done lots of reading up on them and how to care for them (as I said, we've been thinking about this for awhile now), but have since realized we have a few questions we've not managed to find answers to in our readings. I was hoping someone would provide us some further advice.

1.) Our first concern is bedding. We've got a roughly 50/50 mixture of coconut coir and play sand. The coir was torn apart as a dry brick, soaked, then mashed finer when mixed with the sand. We mixed a bit, but didn't completely homogenize it.

There are two problems - first, he's always filthy filthy dirty. Is that normal? Is there any way to reduce the stuff sticking on him?

Second, I've realized that between the combination of the coconut coir and his constant excavating, I have no idea if the little booger pooped today while I was at work... Any ideas? The substrate is just so dark (and I'm color blind).

2.) My next concern is feeding. What time do we feed him? I've read that we should have the lamp on for 12 hours for him, and that's what we're doing today. We fed him in the first hour of this time, and then we both had to go to work.

The original plan was to feed him in the evening, towards the end of his "light time", but that was before speaking to a friend that is into reptiles (but has no turtles or tortoises). I wasn't aware that they had to bask to digest - how much basking time is needed for that? What is the optimal time to feed him?

3.) On the matter of temperature - the pack of thermometer and hygrometer we purchased had some recommended temps and humidities on the back. I'm going by memory here, but want to say it recommended like 75-85 Fahrenheit for Russian Tortoises. But, it also has a note that some reptiles may need much higher temperatures during basking. So, what should my goal temperature be at the basking area?

4.) On the matter of humidity - the same package spoke of in item 3 recommends like 55% humidity for Russians. We aren't even close to that. We already recognize that we need a spray bottle to mist with, but with us both being gone long hours (twice a week I leave at 5am and get back at 8:30pm), I'm concerned that it will be ineffective (can't spray when we aren't there). Are there any other tips for keeping the humidity up? Currently, I think we're more like 40% (again, going off memory here).

What about soaking? How often?

We're not sure of his age - the friend that's in to reptiles speculates that he's at half or a little more than half of his "maximum size".

 

[ChiKat]

First off, congrats on your new tortoises!! I've been a Russian tortoise owner for just over a year and I'm obsessed with my little one

1) Many people on this forum do not like using sand as a substrate, even mixed with coir. Sand tends to stick to everything- I used to use coir/sand and Nelson's eyes got red and irritated because of the little grains of sand.
I currently use coir mixed with top soil, but I might switch to just organic top soil soon. Nelson seems to enjoy burrowing in his outdoor enclosure (plain soil) rather than inside (coir/soil)
Other people seem to like cypress mulch, but it seems too sharp/prickly for me

2) I would feed him in the morning if you can. What types of greens/weeds are you feeding him? Here's good info on diet: http://www.russiantortoise.net/russiantortoisediet.htm

3) I usually have a basking spot of around 90-95, and temps in the 70s on the cooler side. I leave the lights on for 12 hours a day (although now that it's getting cooler out I've changed it to 14 hours on.)

4) I don't measure humidity, to be honest. You can keep the substrate damp on the warm side to keep up humidity. I spray Nelson's shell a few times a day.
You may want to soak your tortoise daily since you just got him- he's probably a bit dehydrated. Do you have a water dish in his enclosure? I frequently notice my Russian drinking from his water dish, so I don't soak him as often as I used to.

Have you considered taking a fecal sample to the vet to check for parasites? Pet store tortoises are usually wild caught, and often have parasites.

Pictures? One of the experts on here can guesstimate his age

 

[Pichoro]

First off, congrats on your new tortoises!! I've been a Russian tortoise owner for just over a year and I'm obsessed with my little one

Thanks - we've probably been considering this for a year.

1) Many people on this forum do not like using sand as a substrate, even mixed with coir. Sand tends to stick to everything- I used to use coir/sand and Nelson's eyes got red and irritated because of the little grains of sand.
I currently use coir mixed with top soil, but I might switch to just organic top soil soon.

Does that stick to the tortoise less? My poor Pete is constantly coated in the stuff.

2) I would feed him in the morning if you can. What types of greens/weeds are you feeding him? Here's good info on diet: http://www.russiantortoise.net/russiantortoisediet.htm

Okay - we'll plan to feed in the morning when we get him regular (more on that in a moment). As for diet, we've read through that. Currently, he's getting a mixture of Romaine Lettuce, Turnip Greens, and a very small amount of Red Bell Pepper we had on hand. We plan to rotate different leafy greens in as we run out of one, so as to constantly change what he's dining on.

3) I usually have a basking spot of around 90-95, and temps in the 70s on the cooler side. I leave the lights on for 12 hours a day (although now that it's getting cooler out I've changed it to 14 hours on.)

How do you get the temp so high? I can't seem to get it above like 85 under the light. It's a Solar Glo light, 125W, supposedly combination UVA/UVB/Basking.

I spray Nelson's shell a few times a day.

Unfortunately, we're not home to spray him during most of the day. We can keep the substrate moist, though.

You may want to soak your tortoise daily since you just got him- he's probably a bit dehydrated.

Thanks - we'll consider that. More on that in a moment, too.

Do you have a water dish in his enclosure?

Yes.

Have you considered taking a fecal sample to the vet to check for parasites? Pet store tortoises are usually wild caught, and often have parasites.

We'd like to (he has a Vet visit friday afternoon), but to be honest, we're not sure if or where he's relieving himself.

Pictures? One of the experts on here can guesstimate his age

When I can get some pics decent pics of him, I'll put a couple up.

---

So, currently, we're trying something new. After I posted yesterday, we decided he was too inactive and we got worried. After doing more reading here, we came to the conclusion that we're bothering him too much because of his lack of activity and the constant burying himself. Yesterday morning, for example, we got him up for breakfast. Today we let him sleep in and just left the lights on for him, and left the salad in the enclosure, planning to let him eat when he pleased. He helped himself to some of it, but not as much as yesterday. But we're trying not to disturb him, is the point.

Should we break that rule to soak him? Will he not soak himself in the water provided? We really just want him to be healthy, happy, and acclimated to his new home.

 

[travisgn]

If you're not getting temps above 85 that may be (part of) the reason for his lack of appetite. How close do you have the light? The farther away it is the less UV is actually reaching him, as well, so the closer the better, both in terms of temps and UV. I have a 160W MVB that I keep about 18 inches from the substrate level. I get temps from 90-100 with that.

I use a 50/50 coco/sand mix and am pretty happy with it. Chances are if you aren't seeing his leavings in it, he hasn't left any. I don't typically have trouble seeing and discarding any, and I'm also color blind. You should expect him to relieve himself around, or even inside, his food dish, or his water dish if he uses it. Mine almost always do so while they eat. Only rarely do they go anywhere else, and I've yet to see them go anywhere near their favorite hiding spots, it's always out in the open. That said, I have heard of torts with different habits, so be vigilant, anyway.

Use your best judgment when balancing "disturbing" him and giving him a helping hand. I've seen the recommendation to sit a tort in front of its food at least every other day if they are inactive, and I go by that, as well. Soaks are well worth the "disturbance," I think. My two RTs never use the water in their dishes, but will typically drink and go to the bathroom during every soak.

 

[-JM]

While it's good to not mess with them too much as they get acclimated to their new home....
Soak him! He's probably dehydrated. Also it gives you a good chance to collect a stool sample. My Bernie always goes while I'm soaking her. Bernadette gets into her water bowl sometimes, but more often than not she avoids it. Soaking them guarantees they have access to the water they need. Baby warm water. Bernie loves it!

Yours is not a hatchling so I don't know if it's so important to keep waking him up, but if Bernie hasn't eaten all her food whenever I'm in the room (between classes or on the way to work, etc) and she hasn't finished I dig her out and put her in the food bowl. It irritates her a little, but many times she eats and then goes back to burrowing or trucking around. Once she sees the food she seems to forget I dug her up to show it to her.

When you take pictures of him, can you take pictures of his enclosure too? I love seeing how people are set up for their Russians!

If you're still wondering about substrate, I use the coir and pat it down. Bernie digs in it and has a grand old time. It doesn't seem to irritate her, but it sometimes does stick to her legs and plastron (doesn't bother her though b/c with daily soakings it rinses right off)

Edit::
You might raise the temps a little bit and see if that helps.

 

[Pichoro]

If you're not getting temps above 85 that may be (part of) the reason for his lack of appetite.

Well, we've added a second temporary light, although it is hardly special. It's an office light with a crane neck. With it, we're hitting about 90 Fahrenheit.

How close do you have the light?

I would say about a foot away from the surface of the substrate. It might be a little warmer on the substrate than 90, I suppose. Our thermometer has to stick to a wall, so I put it as close as I could to the target area of the light.

Chances are if you aren't seeing his leavings in it, he hasn't left any. I don't typically have trouble seeing and discarding any, and I'm also color blind. You should expect him to relieve himself around, or even inside, his food dish, or his water dish if he uses it.

Nothing in or near the food dish today (that does mean he emptied it as well, though). He isn't making much use of the water dish yet. Yesterday it was completely undisturbed (I can tell by how clear the water was cause Pete's always filthy). Today he has either been in or knocked some substrate in while walking past (he seems to do that from time to time).

Soaks are well worth the "disturbance," I think. My two RTs never use the water in their dishes, but will typically drink and go to the bathroom during every soak.

Pete just had his first soak minutes ago. I got a plastic dish we have laying around, placed him in, and put enough "warm but not hot" water to just cover the joint between his carapace and plastron, as detailed in another thread here. For most of the time, he acted as if I were boiling him alive like a lobster for supper. All the struggling made for a good bath, though. Cleanest I've seen him since we brought him home.

Also it gives you a good chance to collect a stool sample.

Alas, no stool sample from soaking. Just lots of sand and coir suspended in the water.

... if Bernie hasn't eaten all her food whenever I'm in the room (between classes or on the way to work, etc) and she hasn't finished I dig her out and put her in the food bowl.

As I said, today Pete finished his salad before I got home. I think he's just terrified of us.

When you take pictures of him, can you take pictures of his enclosure too? I love seeing how people are set up for their Russians!

I will, but to be honest, I'm ashamed. I know it isn't big enough for the little guy. Until we can do better, I've got him in the longest and widest tote I could find at Target that wasn't so short he could practically hop out of it after we added substrate. What can I say? He was a last minute decision.

 

[ChiKat]

I will, but to be honest, I'm ashamed. I know it isn't big enough for the little guy. Until we can do better, I've got him in the longest and widest tote I could find at Target that wasn't so short he could practically hop out of it after we added substrate. What can I say? He was a last minute decision.

Anything is better than what he was in at the pet store, I'm sure! It's probably a palace in comparison!
You can usually find fairly inexpensive bookcases on craigslist and convert them into a "tort table" when you're interested in upgrading his enclosure.