Major change for the worse.

[sachmn]

So after he was doing so good Norbert decided to stop eating and I have no idea why.
His enclosure is clean. Main enclosure temp stays around 78-82 degrees F. Hide temps about 84-88 degrees F. Humidity is a bit more drastic...the CHE's really dry out the air but it still stays at around 65-90 depending on when I run the Repti-Fogger. The top of the substrate is dry while the rest is moist.
He's eating Spring Mix, collard greens, turnip greens, cantaloupe, honeydew, pineapple, some banana, some mango and some ground up cuttle bone on top for calcium. He was eating really well, and was fairly active too...until 3 days ago when he decided to stop eating entirely.
He has been laying in the same place for the last 3 days, at the side of the enclosure farthest from his hide and the CHE's, under the dirt. Temps are the same, which he seemed to being fine with but I'm now thinking are too hot?
Today I put food nearer to him to try to coax him out to eat at the very least but he didn't move from his little burrow.
Any thoughts?

 

[N2TORTS]

Any thoughts?

What type of tort?
How is his eyes and nose? ... any running , or bubbles? .. maybe a gurggle now and then?

 

[spikethebest]

please tell us the type of tortoise you have.... some can not eat fruits at all...

 

[cordell]

He has a red foot. I searched previous threads and Norbert is a red foot.

http://tortoiseforum.org/thread-12802.html

cordell

 

[sachmn]

He's a red foot. I have not noticed any unusual breathing, no leaking from the eyes or nose. The day before he stopped eating he had a nice, healthy meal, he ate almost everything I put in his enclosure plus about half a teaspoon of fruit much later in the day.
I also forgot to mention that his poop is "healthy" looking.
I apologize for the horrid pictures. This is his enclosure for now. We're working on a new one for outside this summer and have a variety of plants and flowers growing for him.
You can see his little head poking out in the first picture on the bottom left.

---

Sorry, just another quick post. I haven't really noticed any real changes in his habits prior to not eating. He'd soak every now and then when he wanted to, I'd bring him out and let him roam around a bit after a soak in warm water then some fruit when he goes back in his enclosure. There's nothing that I can pinpoint as to why the sudden change occurred, and I keep quite a watchful eye on him, the temps, his eating and the humidity.
I scrub his feeding rock every couple of days, scrub out his water dish, new water everyday(the pics were taken prior to the water change), spot cleaning and tossing the excess food every morning before he eats.
The Repti-Fogger is on during the day and then off (or way down) in the evening so it can dry a little and stay warm for the night and so he doesn't have exposure to constantly damp substrate to help avoid shell rot.

 

[Itort]

One thing you can try is spraying him (similating a rainshower). This often stimulales them to eat. You may also try raising the CHE thereby lowering temp. Also the enclosure seems a little bright (perhaps for picture ?), RFs like it a little dimmer.

 

[Stephanie Logan]

I hope your Norbert gets better soon.

Have you taken him to a vet? Could it be a food impaction?

 

[Madkins007]

Wellllll.... for what they are worth, my thoughts would be...

78-82F is a bit cool, but if he is hiding on the cool side, it might be a bit warm overall. Those thermometers are not perfectly accurate and the temps on the substrate may be warmer or cooler. Is it hiding in the dark area? Maybe the lights are too bright?

I'd recommend thinking of a new way to humidify the area. Foggers cool the air and the fog is water vapor, not humidity, and have been accused of adding to respiratory concerns. We can discuss other options if you would like.

It may just not be hungry. If you have been offering large meals of the stuff you listed, he might be stuffed. Torts that are full can just sleep and digest for days.

 

[terryo]

I have always kept my Cherry Head's enclosure between 85 - 87. During the winter when he's inside he only comes out to eat every other day....sometimes he won't eat for two days. In the Summer he'll come out and eat every day.

 

[sachmn]

Well, as soon as I start getting worried he decides to prove that I shouldn't jump the gu. He came out and ate today, so that's not as much of a concern, I'll keep monitoring him though.
I am interested in other ways to humidify his enclosure. The fogger is the only thing I've found that does the job consistently so far but I'm always up for new ideas.

 

[Candy]

Thank goodness. I was getting so worried after reading this thread. I know that my Cherryheads like to eat at 85 degrees. Dales proven that over and over to me and now Ruby's doing the same thing. I think the light might be alittle bright in there, but it's hard to tell from your pictures. I have my light kind of facing away from them and they don't like it when they eat. I'm so glad to hear that he's O.K. Keep us updated on him.

 

[sachmn]

I have been trying to find ways of difusing the light a bit but haven't been too successful.
I want him to get that UV till his outdoor enclosure is ready. His light is situated on the far side of the enclosure behind his hide(so it has no light in it) and a little tucked away behind the CHE's so it's less direct.
He hasn't seemed terribly bothered by it as it is the only light coming in but, like I said, I've been trying to find a more diffuse way of providing light.

 

[t_mclellan]

Here is a thought on humidity.
In my nursery (hatchling) tanks I have 3" to 4" of Cypress much mixed 50/50 with "Long Fiber Sphagnum Moss" found in the Orchid stuff section of Home depot or Lows.
This mix gets about 1/2 gal. of water & mixed well.
The tanks I use are the 20 gal. long type. They all have "Under tank" heating pads covering 1/3 of the bottom.
What happens is, The excess water collects at the bottom of the tank & heats up raising the humidity. The top inch or so of the mix stays damp but not "WET" the warm water will still maintain a slight temp difference from 1 side of the tank to the other.
I place small hides at both ends & light.
I regulate humidity by covering some of the top. The more that you cover the higher the humidity.
This has worked for me for many years.

 

[sachmn]

He didn't eat again today so perhaps he's just digesting and not wanting to eat everyday. This is still new so I won't jump to that conclusion.
I'm setting up an appontment for the vet but the reptile vet isn't in every day so it may take a little while, fortunately the vet is good, as he works at the U of M in the herpetology department.
I have two thermometers in the enclosure and they are usually within a few points of a degree of eachother so it should be pretty accurate. One is at ground level, the other is just above the top of his carapace level (about 3"-4"). This is the same as two hygrometers...one nearer the ground and the second about 6" above substrate.




I am absolutely determined to get this whole thing down to a science!

 

[t_mclellan]

sachmn;
U of M? Dearborn?
If so, I was there last week & might have had a better solution, Had I seen your set-up.
From what you have said. I think you might try what I do with hatchlings ( I don't recall Norbert's size).
The humidity I have explained previously.
Heat is simple also. The "Under Tank" heat pads will heat the water & mulch & that will maintain an average of 80 F.
My nurseries will fluctuate from 75F at night to 85F during the day. All this is dependent on your lighting on the tank & temp. fluctuation in the room. I tend to adjust temp. in the tank by the depth of the mulch.( IE. deeper = cooler & shallow = warmer.)
With 2/3 of the top covered the humidity will stay 80% to 90%.
As I said in my other post, This has worked well for me for years (since the 80's).
With this I have raised many hatchlings to 6" without incident & mine eat every day!
You might actually be amazed by how much they will eat in a day.
Note!:
I use 20 gal. long aquariums as nurseries.
I keep NO MORE than 8 hatchlings per tank.
As hatchlings grow (2.5"+) I decrease the number (of animals) & increase the size (of tank to tub/bin).

 

[sachmn]

Sorry, Univ. of Minnesota.

Last time I measured he was at about 3".
I think I have him in a 55-gallon tub...unfortunately it's deeper than it is long or wide.
I think I will try the undertank heaters and perhaps the different substrate, right now I'm using coconut coir and cypress mulch with sphagnum moss in the corners and in his hide.

 

[t_mclellan]

If your tub is thick plastic you might need to use more heat pads also.
I use the pads that stick to the tank. You might try a small "Farrowing Pad" (pig blanket).
& don't forget to wet your mulch (what you use should be fine).
Make a cover!
If you haven't, Check out the "Photo bucket" link in my signature.

 

[sachmn]

Here's a new development. I found some really, really tiny whitish bugs in his enclosure under his feeding rock. I have never seen them before but they are REALLY tiny and appear to jump.
Scrapping all the substrate and refilling it. This is, perhaps, why he was not eating. I inspected him closely and found no bugs on him.