Hatchling calcium intake?

[milkandsam]

Hello! I've had my hatchling for almost 2 months now.. (2 months tomorrow!!) And this morning when I picked him up I noticed that his plastron seemed softer than usual? I have been giving him daily soaks because I am having a lot of issues with humidity and I spray his enclosure several times a day. I've also been giving him calcium with d3 three times a week and occasionally he gets some cactus pad.... I know he will not be rock hard for a while now... any other suggestions? Should I start giving calcium every day? Thoughts? Suggestions??

 

[Barista5261]

What kind of tortoise do you have?

What does his enclosure look like?

 

[milkandsam]

He's a Greek. I have him on a mixture of soil and coco. He has several hides that I keep as humid as possible but he only uses one of them so far. There is a water dish on the far side that I doubt you can see from the picture. I'm using a mvb and he always has access to cattle bones.

 

[Yvonne G]

Yes, but what about UVB? All the calcium in the world is no good without the UVB either from the sun or an expensive light. They work together.

 

[milkandsam]

I have a powersun that should provide the uvb I believe? I wish I could take him outside for natural uvb but I am 6 inches in snow..

 

[mikeh]

How high is the MVB of the ground? What brand is it? How much time daily does he spend directly under the bulb?

 

[Yvonne G]

...and how old is it? They lose effectiveness after from 3 to 6 months, depending upon the brand.

 

[milkandsam]

The use is about 8-9 inches above. And now that you say it, he has been hiding in his hide a lot the past few days. He is almost always in his hide after 7 pm but spends his mornings out in the light. Not sure exactly because I am at work all day but he is in his hide quite a bit. Is that part of the issue?

 

[mikeh]

Re: RE: Hatchling calcium intake?

The use is about 8-9 inches above. And now that you say it, he has been hiding in his hide a lot the past few days. He is almost always in his hide after 7 pm but spends his mornings out in the light. Not sure exactly because I am at work all day but he is in his hide quite a bit. Is that part of the issue?

1) In order for him to absorb adequate UVB he needs to spend good amount of time directly under or within very close vicinity of the MVB. If its too hot under the bulb he will avoid it. 8-9" distance bulb to substrate is very low. At such short distance UVB levels could be dangerously high and too high of temperature. Minimum 12-14" distance. What is the temperature under the bulb? I would aim at 95F.

2) I assume the MVB is about two months old, since you had the tort for two months. You haven't mentioned the brand. One possibility is that the bulb has failed prematurely. Some MVBs have been known for that. It will continue to produce light and heat even if it fails to emit UVB. Measuring the UVB output with UV meter is the only way to know for sure.

3) I would get a different type of UVB light. Zoomed T5HO 10% tube and fixture positioned at 16"-18" above the substrate. UVB is diffused better and the tubes don't fail early. There are different lengths. Aim for one that would cover about 1/2 to 2/3 of the length of enclosure. You can still continue to use MVB in addition for heat or get a CHE.
(If you are not on the budget T5HO Arcadia D3+ is even a better choice)

4) Calcium every second day is fine but vit D3 every second day is too much. Vit D. can lead to overdose in high amounts. Calcium without vitamin D every second day and with D once a week or less. Once you get your UV squared away, no D is needed.

5) Can you get him outside for some sun? Where do you live. Sun is the best source for UVB.

 

[milkandsam]

It is a power sun light. Right now it is 32 degrees outside with 6 inches of snow... Unfortunately I'm in Kentucky so outside won't be a possibility for a while now. I will see what I can do about changing the light distance. The covering is mesh ( we originally had the light sitting there and then found out the uvb doesn't go through mesh so we moved it down to where it is now). We are looking at getting a different light in the future, but right now it's not an option we really want to pursue. We are likely moving and switching up housing, etc. So I don't want to get something that won't be suited to our more long term needs- but if after moving the light I am still not seeing improvement quickly I will definitely look into getting one! Thank you so much for your comments. My fiance and I are discussing creative solutions for altering the light source right now

 

[Tom]

Your current light source should be fine, but you need to know the temperature under it.

I see three possibilities.
1. Your MVB isn't producing enough UV and your tortoise is starting to suffer MBD.
2. Your tortoise was started with the dry routine before you got it and its going to die of "Hatchling Failure Syndrome" soon.
3. It just "feels" softer for some reason, but its actually fine.

What do you feed your baby?
Do you weigh it? What's the current weight and is it steadily gaining?

 

[milkandsam]

The temperature under the light ranges from 95-103. We feed a variety of dandelion greens, home grown chip seeds, cactus (every once in a while), spring mix, arugula, frisee, book choy (very rarely) radicchio, endive, and escarole are the main staples as well as mazuri and zoomed grassland pellets sometimes. I'm not entirely sure about his weight off the top of my head. I will have to get back to you on that one.

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So far I have noticed that when he is eating a lot, he is also sleeping a lot (possibly growing?) and when he is eating "normally" and not pigging out he sleeps less. Is it possible it is just new growth that is a little less solid and hardened than before?

 

[mikeh]

Yes, best case scenario it is a new growth on the plastron that makes it appear softer. The new growth takes place between scutes and is more tender then older growth. This is more pronounced on the plastron then carapace since plastron is flat. The vertical growth lengthwise will be more "giving" since it runs the entire length of tortoise in the middle and is longer. Perhaps a good picture of plastron can help us seeing it.

Sleeping after being stuffed is a time to digest new food and is normal. Good observation on your end.

 

[milkandsam]

Here's some pictures of his plastron. I moved his light so it is further away and at the hottest point gets between 94 and 96 or so.

 

[mikeh]

Hm...I was hoping to see a fresh and wide growth line to feel comfortable telling you that fresh growth could be the dilemma. But I dont see it, at least not from that picture. Nice looking tort by the way.

You can take a risk and wait, see if it hardens, or you can get new UVB light, or get a UV meter to avoid guessing. Either way, I would cut down on supplementing vit D3. It really needs to come from being exposed to UVB.

 

[milkandsam]

Thanks. He seems to go through spurts where he eats a lot but I don't see any obvious growth. However, I did move the light up quite a bit and he basked there all morning, which is more than he had done previously. I will cut back on my calcium w/ d3

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I think I will wait and see what's up with it. He appears to be moving around still and eating lots. Perhaps I just felt it weird! But I will keep an eye on it and be monitoring his behavior pretty closely.