Gran Chaco/Northern Comparison

[tortadise]

Some discussion has been abroad in the forums lately about Amazon Basin yellow foots, and Sizable red foots. Well I figured I would show that some Northerns do get rather large indeed. I have had Claude(Suriname Collected animal about 12 years ago) and Patricia (the one on that looks like she is getting rammed) is 11 years old. She is a Bolivian Gran Chaco. A rather large female too almost 15" last time I measured her. Claude I have not measured in a while. But I lifted the hide to see what was going on, as it was all caddiwompus. Well just a pic of the size comparison.





Patricia

 

[Bryan]

Are you at all concerned that you may have Northern/Gran Chaco hatchlings if you house them together?

That male is huge, it'd be interesting to see just how big he is.

 

[tortadise]

Not at all. Been totally infertile for the past 4 years. Shame too because she lays huge clutches too. 9-13 eggs each time.

 

[cdmay]

Would sure like to see more photos of Claude and get measurements.
Has he grown much in the years you've maintained him?

 

[tortadise]

You know Carl. Not very much. Had him for almost 12 years not much growth that I could calculate. I will measure him for sure

 

[cdmay]

You know Carl. Not very much. Had him for almost 12 years not much growth that I could calculate. I will measure him for sure

Some of those Suriname animals can grow to gigantic sizes and they are really impressive tortoises. But it seems as if the males are always the super large ones.
OTH, **** Paull used to have a giant inter-sex animal in his collection in Homestead, Florida. It was very large, had a concave plastron but a tiny little tail and a very small, round opening between the shells. Even though the tortoise was well over 16 inches the opening between the carapace and plastron was so small that it could never pass an egg. Weird tortoise--very aggressive too.
Somewhere I have a photo of me holding it...

 

[Bryan]

Not at all. Been totally infertile for the past 4 years. Shame too because she lays huge clutches too. 9-13 eggs each time.

Large clutches indeed! IIRC you sent me pics of your Bolivian male as well, is he the smallest tort in the pic? Any idea why she might be infertile? Hopefully it's an issue with the males because Patricia is a beauty.

You know Carl. Not very much. Had him for almost 12 years not much growth that I could calculate. I will measure him for sure

Interesting, for an animal to get to that size he must've had some massive growth spurts at some point.

Some of those Suriname animals can grow to gigantic sizes and they are really impressive tortoises. But it seems as if the males are always the super large ones.
OTH, **** Paull used to have a giant inter-sex animal in his collection in Homestead, Florida. It was very large, had a concave plastron but a tiny little tail and a very small, round opening between the shells. Even though the tortoise was well over 16 inches the opening between the carapace and plastron was so small that it could never pass an egg. Weird tortoise--very aggressive too.
Somewhere I have a photo of me holding it...

It's not the same but I recall reading about the world record Lake Trout and it was a sexual oddity that got to roughly twice as big as the next largest specimens, it did not spawn so instead of using its energy to spawn it used it to store fat and grow larger. Much in the same way that people castrate hogs or bulls to get them to grow faster because they are not trying to spend as much energy mating except in these cases they were done by nature.

 

[tortadise]

Well the infertility thing has to do with the male for sure. The male "Bolivian" I had for her ended up being not a Bolivian. Its tough to tell until they reach maturity and either hourglass or not. Well I was victim of typical trade or market back in the day. Thought I bought a known gran chaco and turns out to be another northern. So the hunt continues. I believe I still have a gran chaco male. Just in between knowing fur sure. More growth will determine that. But is showing a true gran Chaco chacteristic of round shape and typical orange scales on head and legs.

 

[Madkins007]

Kelly- do you have any plastron photos of the Grans? I have heard/read they are like 'cherry's', but not seen any good shots.

 

[Bryan]

Kelly- do you have any plastron photos of the Grans? I have heard/read they are like 'cherry's', but not seen any good shots.

Here's some pics of Douglas Beard's beautiful animals.....

http://www.tortoiseforum.org/thread-2880.html

 

[tortadise]

I will snap a photo of the big gen. Not sure on the little one though. Her plastron is jet black.

 

[tortadise]

Here is the male I hope ends up being a Gran Chaco. Kinda has a waste band but then again the Gran Chacos still kinda rubberband waste a little




Patricia


Claude
He is not really that long but has an impressive mass to him. He is 22 pounds.

 

[Bryan]

As you can see from the link that I posted above, not all Gran Chaco's have 95%+ of their plastrons jet black. There are a lot of pictures of Gran Chaco's in the South American Tortoises book, it's a must have for Gran Chaco lovers IMO. That said from what I have heard there aren't a lot of breeders that I would trust as having pure animals.

 

[Bryan]

That top pic of Claude sure was deceiving! It looked like he was bigger than Patricia but in actuality at least length wise he isn't.

 

[tortadise]

I know right. he does have the same mass as her. But not the length.