Confused...

[Jabuticaba]

Hi, all! I just noticed something about Whaley, my make Hermanni: his pectoral seam is slightly shorter than his femoral seam, unlike the female's.

This is Whaley:


This is Darwin:


I'm wondering if I have 2 different sub-species. Any insight would be much appreciated.


May[CHERRY BLOSSOM], Hermann's [TURTLE][TURTLE] & Aussie [DOG FACE][DOG FACE][DOG FACE] (@YWG)

 

[HermanniChris]

The pectoral vs the femoral scute seam should not receive as much attention in identifying subspecies as other indicators. All three subspecies of Hermanns tortoise can have high variation in the length of the seams. While T. h. boettgeri typically features a longer pectoral than femoral, hercegovinensis typically features seams somewhat equal in length and hermanni hermanni features a longer femoral seam, they can all be opposite as well. In this case, without knowing exactly where these tortoises or their parents are from, it's impossible to use the length of the sutures as an accurate indicator of the appropriate subspecies they are assigned to. However, it could
Be possible that they are originally from different localities (or their parents are) within the natural range of the subspecies they are.
This could possibly explain the abundance of black on the plastron of the one tortoise. But again, this doesn't "certify" the statement either.

 

[Tom]

Best guess Chris? Based on any visible factors?

 

[HermanniChris]

I'm going with both being T. h. boettgeri

 

[Jabuticaba]

Wow! There's lots more to IDing than I thought. Thanks for the great insight, Chris!


May[CHERRY BLOSSOM], Hermann's [TURTLE][TURTLE] & Aussie [DOG FACE][DOG FACE][DOG FACE] (@YWG)

---

I'm going with both being T. h. boettgeri

Really? I must say, I'm a bit surprised. I thought you'd say "mutts." [GRINNING FACE WITH SMILING EYES]


May[CHERRY BLOSSOM], Hermann's [TURTLE][TURTLE] & Aussie [DOG FACE][DOG FACE][DOG FACE] (@YWG)

 

[diamondbp]

HermanniChris for President! Lol

 

[Jabuticaba]

HermanniChris for President! Lol

I second that!


May[CHERRY BLOSSOM], Hermann's [TURTLE][TURTLE] & Aussie [DOG FACE][DOG FACE][DOG FACE] (@YWG)

 

[Tom]

I'm going with both being T. h. boettgeri

There might be a few people around that know this stuff, but few are willing to share it as you do.

Thank you for that. Thank you for taking the time to learn all this stuff AND taking the time to explain it to us, so that we too might learn. You are an enemy of ignorance!


And thanks to Jabuticaba for posing the question. I'm trying to learn all I can about this species, but I had no idea what the answer to your question would be.

 

[HermanniChris]

Thanks everybody and thanks for that Tom. Means a lot to me.

 

[Jabuticaba]

No need to thank me, Tom. I'm still learning, too, so I have loads of questions. Luckily, some of my questions have already been posted by other members, as well. And you're right: very few experts are as dedicated to educating the public, as Chris is.

Thanks for always taking the time, Chris!


May[CHERRY BLOSSOM], Hermann's [TURTLE][TURTLE], & Aussies (@YWG)