Pearl may be sick

[Riverhorse]

We have adopted a Home's Hingeback female named Pearl who is approx 14 years old. We took her to the vet for a well-visit and left with apparently a very sick tortoise. Pearl has one eye that occasionally leaks. Since the vet both eyes occasionally leak. She tends to wheeze when she is picked up or startled. She has been kept in a 1' x 30" aquarium for 14 years with a flourescent UVB lamp and heat lamp 1' above her keeping the tank at around 95 degrees. I have put her in a cedar Tortoise House 2' x 3' with a hide box. It is around 60% humidity and I am not sure how to make it more humid with out flooding the floor. She also has shell rot. The vet has had me soak her for half hour everyday in novolsan then cover her connecting tissue with burn ointment. She used to be fine and sit in the water dish for an hour. Now she soaks for up to 5 hours (I have to remove her). She eats really well. I also give her antibiotic shots every 3 days. Is she just traumatized? Is the enclosure too cold now that it is at 82 degrees? I am afraid to leave the basking lamp on because it goes to 90+ degrees. Is the substrate to wet to let the shell rot heel?
thanks

 

[Torty Mom]

I am so sorry your tortie is sick! From what I understand cedar is not good for them. Can you use something else than cedar and see if you see any changes?

Here is a link from the tortoise trust on cedar:
http://www.tortoisetrust.org/articles/substrates.html

I hope your tortie is feeling better soon!

 

[Neltharion]

Mary Anne is right. Cedar, as well as pine, are known to be toxic. Cedar is known to cause respiratory infections in a number of animals.

At one time, many dog owners were encouraged to use cedar beds or other products, since the cedar repelled/killed fleas, ticks, and other pests. What experts found out was that the same contents in cedar that repel or kill insects were also affecting the dogs and other pets, and also humans.

Cedar contains plicatic acid, exposure to plicatic acid is known to aggravate asthma, rhinitis and conjunctivitis in humans and in animals.

There is a good chance that the heat and humidity of the enclosure is causing the cedar to discharge these acids.

http://servicedogcentral.org/forum/index.php?topic=504.0

 

[Jacqui]

We have adopted a Home's Hingeback female named Pearl who is approx 14 years old.

Congrats on getting a Homes, they are wonderful tortoises! Also welcome to the forum!

We took her to the vet for a well-visit and left with apparently a very sick tortoise. Pearl has one eye that occasionally leaks. Since the vet both eyes occasionally leak.

Is this beyond the normal just weeping look they actually have? Could it also be simply from him being in a wrong environment...such as too low in humidity.

She tends to wheeze when she is picked up or startled.

The wheeze is indeed often dealing with stress and is normal.Does she do it any other time?

She has been kept in a 1' x 30" aquarium for 14 years with a flourescent UVB lamp and heat lamp 1' above her keeping the tank at 95 degrees.

So she has been cooked a bit and no way to get off to a cooler area.

I have put her in a cedar Tortoise House 2' x 3' with a hide box. It is around 60% humidity and I am not sure how to make it more humid with out flooding the floor.

What are you using for flooring? Have you also considered adding a humid hide? Do you spray her? Might even end up needing to cover part of it with something solid like plastic to keep in the humidity. How about a leaf mulch pile or long strand sphagnum moss?

She also has shell rot. The vet has had me soak her for half hour everyday in novolsan then cover her connecting tissue with burn ointment. She used to be fine and sit in the water dish for an hour. Now she soaks for up to 5 hours (I have to remove her). She eats really well. I also give her antibiotic shots every 3 days. Is she just traumatized? Is the enclosure too cold now that it is at 82 degrees? I am afraid to leave the basking lamp on because it goes to 90+ degrees. Is the substrate to wet to let the shell rot heel?
thanks

82 is not too cold. What are the antibiotics for? Does she spend time under her basking light? Does she have the ability to get into a dry area too? After you put on her meds, you could leave her for awhile in a dry box, much as we do with rot on water turtles. It's often with them refered to as dry docking. What are you feeding her?

Can we see pictures???

 

[Riverhorse]

We have adopted a Home's Hingeback female named Pearl who is approx 14 years old.

Congrats on getting a Homes, they are wonderful tortoises! Also welcome to the forum!

We took her to the vet for a well-visit and left with apparently a very sick tortoise. Pearl has one eye that occasionally leaks. Since the vet both eyes occasionally leak.

Is this beyond the normal just weeping look they actually have? Could it also be simply from him being in a wrong environment...such as too low in humidity.
The skin around the eyes are wet, usually after she eats breakfast, when I pick her up to soak her in Novalsan. Maybe it is a stress reaction. Perhaps it is also a reaction to the cedar.

She tends to wheeze when she is picked up or startled.

The wheeze is indeed often dealing with stress and is normal.Does she do it any other time? I think it is only when we surprise her or pick her up for her treatments.

She has been kept in a 1' x 30" aquarium for 14 years with a flourescent UVB lamp and heat lamp 1' above her keeping the tank at 95 degrees.

So she has been cooked a bit and no way to get off to a cooler area.

I have put her in a cedar Tortoise House 2' x 3' with a hide box. It is around 60% humidity and I am not sure how to make it more humid with out flooding the floor.

I have now removed her from the cedar house until I can change the wood.
What are you using for flooring? Have you also considered adding a humid hide? Do you spray her? Might even end up needing to cover part of it with something solid like plastic to keep in the humidity. How about a leaf mulch pile or long strand sphagnum moss?
I have removed her from the cedar tortoise house. I do spray her. I use Forest Floor-cypress mulch and her hide is more humid than the rest of the enclosure. I will try to get moss and leaf mulch. I was going to try coconut coir next..Do you think that it will be safe? I hear there may be a problem with ingestion.

She also has shell rot. The vet has had me soak her for half hour everyday in novolsan then cover her connecting tissue with burn ointment. She used to be fine and sit in the water dish for an hour. Now she soaks for up to 5 hours (I have to remove her). She eats really well. I also give her antibiotic shots every 3 days. Is she just traumatized? Is the enclosure too cold now that it is at 82 degrees? I am afraid to leave the basking lamp on because it goes to 90+ degrees. Is the substrate to wet to let the shell rot heel?
thanks

82 is not too cold. What are the antibiotics for? Does she spend time under her basking light? Does she have the ability to get into a dry area too? After you put on her meds, you could leave her for awhile in a dry box, much as we do with rot on water turtles. It's often with them referred to as dry docking. What are you feeding her?
Can we see pictures???


Antibiotics are for shell rot and respiratory infection. She also received a Vitamin A, B, E shot. The area under the uVB light is drier (and also 90 ish degrees) She used to sit out near there but for three days now she hides after eating and seems to avoid all light. She never liked to bask under the heat lamp. Should her hide box where she sleeps be drier or more humid?
I dry-dock her for 1 hour after her meds. Her back scute just came off and it looks necrotic underneath. For 14 years she was fed Romaine lettuce, RepCal Tortoise Food(fish meal, soy, fruits), Zoo Med Forest Tortoise Food (grasses) ,Nekton Rep food supplement (calcium and multivitamin). The vet changed her diet to 80%zucchini, mustardleaves,dandelion, mushroom 10% mealworms,10% fruit
She has had a lot of changes in her lifestyle these last 3 weeks.
I will take a picture when she wakes up. thanks so much for your help!

---

I am so sorry your tortie is sick! From what I understand cedar is not good for them. Can you use something else than cedar and see if you see any changes?

Here is a link from the tortoise trust on cedar:
http://www.tortoisetrust.org/articles/substrates.html

I hope your tortie is feeling better soon!

Thank you so much! I was using the Zoo Med Tortoise House and none of the listings for it say it is cedar. I will call and find out. It smelled very strongly like cedar when we opened the box. I will remove her until I find out. Thanks again.

---

Mary Anne is right. Cedar, as well as pine, are known to be toxic. Cedar is known to cause respiratory infections in a number of animals.

At one time, many dog owners were encouraged to use cedar beds or other products, since the cedar repelled/killed fleas, ticks, and other pests. What experts found out was that the same contents in cedar that repel or kill insects were also affecting the dogs and other pets, and also humans.

Cedar contains plicatic acid, exposure to plicatic acid is known to aggravate asthma, rhinitis and conjunctivitis in humans and in animals.

There is a good chance that the heat and humidity of the enclosure is causing the cedar to discharge these acids.

http://servicedogcentral.org/forum/index.php?topic=504.0

Thanks Neltharion, I will definitely look in to it. The smell was so strong it was bothering all of us.

 

[Torty Mom]

I use coconut coir with my hatchlings and they do not eat it. The only problem I have with it is that when I spray them down the coir sticks to them. They love to bury themselves and make little holes. So cute!

I am glad you removed the cedar, I think that was a major factor, I bet it was what was making her eyes water from the fumes the wood puts out.

I do not have experience with vitamin shots, but have heard here on TFO that they are not good for the torties, maybe one of the experts can weigh in on this for you!

When I got my tort LOU he was super sick and I was advised against the vitamin shots. Instead I fed him a lots of vit A rich foods. Our vet offered and I declined. Lou is doing great now.

I hope your little one feels better soon. Hang in there, it's a long tiresome road but worth it in the end.

 

[Jacqui]

Her not wanting to be out under the light is perfectly normal, most Homes prefer the more dark, shadowy places. Remember they are called forest tortoises because that is their natural type range. It's also why they have those lovely big eyes. Usually just the normal lighting within a home will make them happiest. Occasionally, do offer them a chance to bask, as a few seem to enjoy and even perhaps need the basking time.

I myself do use the coir (bed-a-beast) and a small amount of sand for the major portion of my inside substrate, I try to have an area of the cypress mulch and then a big leaf pile. With time, it all gets mixed together,

Is she eating the new diet well? Wondering because going by the odds, they don;t tend to be the big green plant eaters, but it's great when one will.

The back scute fell off? So the shell rot is on the carapace (top shell) rather then the plastron (bottom shell)?

 

[Riverhorse]

Pearl is doing much better. We replaced some of the panels with clear plexi. We used polyurethane on the floor and hide box to seal the Tortoise House which was made of Cypress (pine). She still has some respiratory sounds but is she is more active and there are less respiratory sounds. In an effort to reduce them even further, we will replace the substrate, which was a combination of sphagnum peat moss (which helps keep it humid) and cypress(pine) mulch, with sphagnum peat moss and coconut coir.

She is still on her antibiotic shots because of the respiratory sounds and shell rot.

She will sometimes get up very high on her legs and walk toward my hand as I am tidying the substrate and throw her shell at my hand. I am glad she is so strong but do you think she is mad at me for the injections and the soaking and/or just invading her space? She doesn't do it in the morning when I put her food in and change the water.

Also,