Would like advice - interesting parasites

[islandtort]

I took me new 4yo Hermanns, Darwin to the vet for an initial check up and had a fecal test done. The vet told me he has pin worms and another kind of worm that sounded like the name "Flagyl?" but I can't recall what she said and she didn't write it down, and possibly a tape worm egg but she wasn't sure. She gave him a dose of flagyl (I did not get this confused with the worm she told me she found, but I know nothing about tortoise parasites. I am a nurse but nowhere near a vet), and panacur. When we got home I was actually in the process of building him a new tortoise table- I had him in a tank. im learning- so I completed it and put him in there with all new substrate ect. We have another vet appointment in about a week and a half for another fecal test, but I have some questions about how to go about this until then.

1- how often should I change everything out? He hasn't pooped yet and its been 5 days since the appointment, but he did go into a new environment/stress I suppose. He is just coming around to the new place.

2- Should I only change everything out when he poops or do it every day regardless?
2a- if I should only change everything when he poops, do I also need to do it when he pees? (usually in his water)

3- would it be okay to sprinkle food grade diatomaceous earth in his enclosure to battle the parasite eggs that could be there or would this be pointless?
3a- should I feed him DE? If so, would I just sprinkle it on his food like calcium powder?

4- do I or my dogs have any risk in contracting anything from him? I am keeping him in his enclosure only and washing my hands after any contact whatsoever with him.

5- after he gets a clean bill of parasite free, im assuming I generally won't have to worry about this again with him because he will be by himself or in an enclosure?

This is all the questions I have for now. If you guys think of any more tips I would greatly appreciate it.

Thanks in advance for any info anyone gives me as well!

 

[islandtort]

I thought of another question-

6- how SHOULD I clean the enclosure? Should I use a bleach mixture spray after changing the substrate? I also know I should avoid washing his food dishes with our dishes but the only other sink is the bathroom. Should I wash his food and water dishes with soap and water in the bathroom sink?

 

[Yvonne G]

I would keep him on paper towells until after your final appointment.

 

[Tom]

I took me new 4yo Hermanns, Darwin to the vet for an initial check up and had a fecal test done. The vet told me he has pin worms and another kind of worm that sounded like the name "Flagyl?" but I can't recall what she said and she didn't write it down, and possibly a tape worm egg but she wasn't sure. She gave him a dose of flagyl (I did not get this confused with the worm she told me she found, but I know nothing about tortoise parasites. I am a nurse but nowhere near a vet), and panacur. When we got home I was actually in the process of building him a new tortoise table- I had him in a tank. im learning- so I completed it and put him in there with all new substrate ect. We have another vet appointment in about a week and a half for another fecal test, but I have some questions about how to go about this until then.

1- how often should I change everything out? He hasn't pooped yet and its been 5 days since the appointment, but he did go into a new environment/stress I suppose. He is just coming around to the new place.

2- Should I only change everything out when he poops or do it every day regardless?
2a- if I should only change everything when he poops, do I also need to do it when he pees? (usually in his water)

3- would it be okay to sprinkle food grade diatomaceous earth in his enclosure to battle the parasite eggs that could be there or would this be pointless?
3a- should I feed him DE? If so, would I just sprinkle it on his food like calcium powder?

4- do I or my dogs have any risk in contracting anything from him? I am keeping him in his enclosure only and washing my hands after any contact whatsoever with him.

5- after he gets a clean bill of parasite free, im assuming I generally won't have to worry about this again with him because he will be by himself or in an enclosure?

This is all the questions I have for now. If you guys think of any more tips I would greatly appreciate it.

Thanks in advance for any info anyone gives me as well!

Hi!

Vets don't know much about tortoise care. Be forewarned.

1. Soak every other day. This will make him poop and keep the poop out of the enclosure. No need to change everything out ever. Spot clean and remove excess food daily. Change water daily.
2. See number one.
3. This does nothing. No need for it.
4. Parasites and pathogens are generally host specific. There are a few that can infect multiple species. Risk to you and other pets is minimal.
5. False. Pinworm eggs are very light weight and can blow in on the wind. But you will probably be fine.
6. No need for bleach, but it won't hurt as long as you rinse well. I just rinse and wipe out food and water bowls. They get scrubbed if needed, but I don't use soap. After washing, I let them bake in the hot sun for a day or two. Terra cotta saucers work best for food and water.

There is nothin wrong with a "tank" as long as it is big enough. Using an open table makes keeping the correct conditions difficult unless the room conditions are close to what they need. Like heating your own home with no roof on it. This will help you:

The Best Way To Raise Any Temperate Species Of Tortoise

I chose the title of this care sheet very carefully. Are there other ways to raise babies and care for adults? Yes. Yes there are, but those ways are not as good. What follows is the BEST way, according to 30 years of research and experimentation with hundreds of babies of many species. What is...

tortoiseforum.org

Questions welcome.

 

[ZEROPILOT]

Pinworms are not uncommon in tortoises.
I'd almost say that they are common. And mostly rarely cause issues in otherwise healthy tortoises.
I can pretty much gaurantee that the tortoises in my collection are not immune. But I only treat sick tortoises. Then they are removed. Treated and kept in isolation. They are contagious.
Not every case requires action. But most vets want to act.
I believe that Flagyl is a medication. Not a type of parasite.

 

[Markw84]

Both pinworms and flagellates are considered normal gut flora in tortoises. Most of the best tortoise vets consider them as possibly beneficial and certainly commensal. I personally would not treat unless there were other symptoms, particulaly inability to gain weight, lethargy. When I get fecals done for my tortoises I want to know the count of the things they find. A low to moderate count on pinworms and most flagellates - I don't treat. A high or extremely high load, I will treat.

In captivity with marginal cleaning husbandry, or with larger groups of tortoises, the parasite load can build too high, so checking is always a good idea. Both parasites mentioned are direct life cylce, so reinfection is compounded in captivity and certainly with groups.

Panacur is the drug of choice for pinworms. Flagyl is the drug of choice for flagellates. Most vets will prescribe 2 treatments of panacur. I only do 1 normally. I am not trying to knock out all the pinworms, just reduce the load to "normal" levels. The few vets who really know and have a lot of experience with tortoises will normally recommend the same.

Follow @Tom s advice above as far as enclosure cleaning/ soaking tortoise instead.

I would also suggest adding some reptile probiotic to the food when treatment is done. The panacur and Flagyl in combination will do a major rework on the microbiome of your tortoise!

The best thing for your tortoise is regular monitoring of its weight. That is the best indicator of overall health. Most all other tortoise issues will show with other symptoms often too late.

 

[Rodriguez Chelonians]

I took me new 4yo Hermanns, Darwin to the vet for an initial check up and had a fecal test done. The vet told me he has pin worms and another kind of worm that sounded like the name "Flagyl?" but I can't recall what she said and she didn't write it down, and possibly a tape worm egg but she wasn't sure. She gave him a dose of flagyl (I did not get this confused with the worm she told me she found, but I know nothing about tortoise parasites. I am a nurse but nowhere near a vet), and panacur. When we got home I was actually in the process of building him a new tortoise table- I had him in a tank. im learning- so I completed it and put him in there with all new substrate ect. We have another vet appointment in about a week and a half for another fecal test, but I have some questions about how to go about this until then.

1- how often should I change everything out? He hasn't pooped yet and its been 5 days since the appointment, but he did go into a new environment/stress I suppose. He is just coming around to the new place.

2- Should I only change everything out when he poops or do it every day regardless?
2a- if I should only change everything when he poops, do I also need to do it when he pees? (usually in his water)

3- would it be okay to sprinkle food grade diatomaceous earth in his enclosure to battle the parasite eggs that could be there or would this be pointless?
3a- should I feed him DE? If so, would I just sprinkle it on his food like calcium powder?

4- do I or my dogs have any risk in contracting anything from him? I am keeping him in his enclosure only and washing my hands after any contact whatsoever with him.

5- after he gets a clean bill of parasite free, im assuming I generally won't have to worry about this again with him because he will be by himself or in an enclosure?

This is all the questions I have for now. If you guys think of any more tips I would greatly appreciate it.

Thanks in advance for any info anyone gives me as well!

Hi there ?. Vet tech and breeder here.
Is your tortoise showing any signs of intestinal parasites? How do the stools look?
As stated above pin worms are very common in all reptiles and unless symptomatic or high numbers are seen good reptile vets do not typically treat for them. Flagellates are a normal part of the GI flora, seen in every reptile and are assumed to play an important role in digestion. Of course if the animal is showing signs of illness and they are over abundant this can be a sign of dysbiosis and require treatment. Tape worms are not common in tortoise so I'm temped to think they a secondary from ingestion. Might want to check the dogs for fleas as they transmit tapeworms to dogs. If the tortoise ate the dog poop he would shed the eggs but the worms will not affect him.
1. Five days without defecation is not ideal so I would be doing 10-15 min warm soaks daily especially with the treatment of Flagyl (metronidazole) to increase hydration. Soaking encourages defecation and drinking. Change out water after defecation.
2. If an animal is symptomatic and has a serious parasite infection I recommend keeping on paper towels in an ICU temp and humidity stable environment. Yours does not seem to have this issue. Simple spot cleaning and soaking will be sufficient. You can always change out the substrate once treatment is finished and parasites have been treated if you wish.
3. I don't recommend DE.
4. There is no risk to you or your dogs. Basic hand washing is sufficient. However, like said check the dogs for fleas and tapeworms.
5. If there are no signs or symptoms of parasites (diarrhea, loose stools, leathery, anorexia, worms in stools) you should be fine but can do annual checks if you like. I just recommend finding a vet in your area that is familiar with reptiles, particularly tortoises so they don't treat heavy handedly.

You can use this link to find local vets a screen them with your questions before choosing one that's right for you. Not all vets suck at treating reptiles. ? https://arav.site-ym.com/search/custom.asp?id=3661

Good luck and reach out if you have more questions.