Won't come out except to eat???

[Mark Tenerife]

Hi
My Russian lives in Tenerife so it us always hot here. Freda has an outdoor enclosure. It is well planted with plants she can eat (all safe) and there is always fresh water in a shallow sunken tray not to deep.
She was captive breed and will only eat the hibiscus flowers I pick for her and the gourmet salad I buy. She just can't seem to grasp that she can eat the growing plants. Plus she only comes out to eat then spend the rest of the day and night in the hide.
Today I have put a door on the hide to try to get her to dig and explore. She has been in this enclosure about 3 months and as far as I can tell it has everything she needs.
There are no dangers it's quiet and has cool areas.
Is it cruel to put the door on the hide or will it encourage her to be more active.
The enclosure is not huge 10 foot by 4 foot. But she is snall snd i hope at some point in the future to make a bigger area for her
Thanks any advice welcome

 

[wellington]

I have done the same to one of my leopards. Shut the door to the hide so she had to get out and roam and get some sunlight. She's seems to hate the sun LOL
It is not cruel to close off the hide area as long as she has cooler shaded places to go. As for the not eating the plants, don't feed her. Make her have to roam and feed off the plants. I usually feed my torts every other day in the warm months where they can be outside and graze. As long as they have edible plants, they won't starve before they start grazing.

 

[Mark Tenerife]

Hi Wellington
Well the door didn't work. It's taken her 2 hours to figure how to open it. I will have to try a different design. So crafty and single minded (That's what I love about her) .

I'll do as you say and give her a feed every couple of days. I have to say she is in beautiful condition and growing even in the 6 months I have had her.

I'm trying to grow other plants she can eat. There is already quite a selection I want to get more but even the most simple plants can be hard to grow here. I have thought about putting a kind of open hide in there for her.

Thank you so much for the reassurance I'm trying my best to make her happy but I'm told the Russians can be a bit grumpy (like me I guess)

M xx

 

[wellington]

This is an adult Russian correct?
If it's a hatchling or 2 and under, then I would not stop feeding but you would then have to trick her into eating the other things by chopping up the foods she won't eat along with her favorites and spritz with water. She then has to eat what food is stuck to her favorite and you slowly add more of the other foods and less of the fave.
If she is an adult of 2 or older, then yes, my first post will be fine and should help.
I think it's a hoot she figured the door out.

 

[Tidgy's Dad]

Hello, from neighbouring Morocco.
I find that my Tidgy also spends a lot of the time in her hides where it is cool, humid and shaded. Our sun is vicious and can't be tolerated for long, even the shady areas are bonkers hot and not as cool as the humid hides.
I agree with Barbara (wellington) , that if there is edible vegetation, you can starve the tortoise and it will eat when it gets hungry enough. And they can go a long, long time without food, so it may take a while.

 

[Mark Tenerife]

This is an adult Russian correct?
If it's a hatchling or 2 and under, then I would not stop feeding but you would then have to trick her into eating the other things by chopping up the foods she won't eat along with her favorites and spritz with water. She then has to eat what food is stuck to her favorite and you slowly add more of the other foods and less of the fave.
If she is an adult of 2 or older, then yes, my first post will be fine and should help.
I think it's a hoot she figured the door out.

This is an adult Russian correct?
If it's a hatchling or 2 and under, then I would not stop feeding but you would then have to trick her into eating the other things by chopping up the foods she won't eat along with her favorites and spritz with water. She then has to eat what food is stuck to her favorite and you slowly add more of the other foods and less of the fave.
If she is an adult of 2 or older, then yes, my first post will be fine and should help.
I think it's a hoot she figured the door out.

Well she is about 4 inches long they said in the pet shop she was 3 years old. I did try chopping food up and mixing it with the salad but she even knew the hibiscus flowers from the geranium flowers. She's smart. It's man vrs tortoise at the moment.

I have a plan. I am going to shut her out of the hide. Provide her with an open sheltered area and try not to feed her for a day. Then much the natural growing plants with a bit of the salad

 

[Rt1jen]

Hello, from neighbouring Morocco.
I find that my Tidgy also spends a lot of the time in her hides where it is cool, humid and shaded. Our sun is vicious and can't be tolerated for long, even the shady areas are bonkers hot and not as cool as the humid hides.
I agree with Barbara (wellington) , that if there is edible vegetation, you can starve the tortoise and it will eat when it gets hungry enough. And they can go a long, long time without food, so it may take a while.

Not a good idea to "starve the tortoise"
Please consider others thoughts on this subject as this is quite extreme and unnecessary!

 

[wellington]

Not a good idea to "starve the tortoise"
Please consider others thoughts on this subject as this is quite extreme and unnecessary!

He would not be starving the tortoise! If you read my post that Tidgy's Dad was referring to, you would see this. There is food available to eat when s/he gets hungry. Tortoises will not purposely starve themselves.

 

[wellington]

Well she is about 4 inches long they said in the pet shop she was 3 years old. I did try chopping food up and mixing it with the salad but she even knew the hibiscus flowers from the geranium flowers. She's smart. It's man vrs tortoise at the moment.

I have a plan. I am going to shut her out of the hide. Provide her with an open sheltered area and try not to feed her for a day. Then much the natural growing plants with a bit of the salad

Most at pet stores, at least in the US are wild caught older, like 5-10 years of age. So, if yours is the age they told you or possibly older, then it is okay to do as I suggested.

 

[Rt1jen]

He would not be starving the tortoise! If you read my post that Tidgy's Dad was referring to, you would see this. There is food available to eat when s/he gets hungry. Tortoises will not purposely starve themselves.

I read your post. No need to get testy!

 

[Mark Tenerife]

Hello, from neighbouring Morocco.
I find that my Tidgy also spends a lot of the time in her hides where it is cool, humid and shaded. Our sun is vicious and can't be tolerated for long, even the shady areas are bonkers hot and not as cool as the humid hides.
I agree with Barbara (wellington) , that if there is edible vegetation, you can starve the tortoise and it will eat when it gets hungry enough. And they can go a long, long time without food, so it may take a while.

Yeah a neighbour I was thinking of moving there 2 years ago but that's another story. I have shut off the hide and she can't get back in. I have a Palm tree directly above the enclosure plus the plants in the enclosure and the shallow water pond/dish. The soil is watered every evening so although parts dry out some areas are still have humidity. I live in an unnatural environment as well this was all desert and dry nothingness. There is always shade in at least part of the enclosure all day. I will cut down on the supermarket salad and gradually mix more of the growing food with it step by step
She nibbles at plants sometimes but not enough to live off. Brilliant to hear from someone so close. I wish sometimes I wasn't on this very little island. Would love to chat more. Mark

 

[Tidgy's Dad]

Yeah a neighbour I was thinking of moving there 2 years ago but that's another story. I have shut off the hide and she can't get back in. I have a Palm tree directly above the enclosure plus the plants in the enclosure and the shallow water pond/dish. The soil is watered every evening so although parts dry out some areas are still have humidity. I live in an unnatural environment as well this was all desert and dry nothingness. There is always shade in at least part of the enclosure all day. I will cut down on the supermarket salad and gradually mix more of the growing food with it step by step
She nibbles at plants sometimes but not enough to live off. Brilliant to hear from someone so close. I wish sometimes I wasn't on this very little island. Would love to chat more. Mark

All sounds good.
If you do wish to chat, I'm fine if you want to PM me.
Or I can often be found in my little, but slightly bonkers thread http://www.tortoiseforum.org/threads/cold-dark-room.123941/page-3946#post-1520079 where a few of us post about our live, our torts and a lot of general silliness.

 

[Mark Tenerife]

Most at pet stores, at least in the US are wild caught older, like 5-10 years of age. So, if yours is the age they told you or possibly older, then it is okay to do as I suggested.

Hi here in Europe it is illegal to own wild caught tortoise. They are all captive breed and all have certification that I as the owner have to sign. All tortoise here are classed as endangered hence the captive breed laws. She is the age that is on the government certificate that I signed they are all registered with I'D numbers.
Just a question and this us not to offend anyone out of Europe. I've noticed that quite a few owners have tortious from the wild. To me that seems a totally alien idea. Is it part of a captive breeding program or do just think it better to own and protect them. As I said I am not being critical more interested. I personally would never want to own any animal, fish, or reptile if it had been caught from its natural habitat. I have Koi Carp but now here on Spain it is illegal to sell them as they are classed as an invasive species (ridiculous for Tenerife as we don't have any rivers). Please this us not a criticism but I would love to understand why so many people have caught rather than captive breeds. Thanks Mark

 

[Rt1jen]

Hi here in Europe it is illegal to own wild caught tortoise. They are all captive breed and all have certification that I as the owner have to sign. All tortoise here are classed as endangered hence the captive breed laws. She is the age that is on the government certificate that I signed they are all registered with I'D numbers.
Just a question and this us not to offend anyone out of Europe. I've noticed that quite a few owners have tortious from the wild. To me that seems a totally alien idea. Is it part of a captive breeding program or do just think it better to own and protect them. As I said I am not being critical more interested. I personally would never want to own any animal, fish, or reptile if it had been caught from its natural habitat. I have Koi Carp but now here on Spain it is illegal to sell them as they are classed as an invasive species (ridiculous for Tenerife as we don't have any rivers). Please this us not a criticism but I would love to understand why so many people have caught rather than captive breeds. Thanks Mark

Hi, great question and I totally agree with what you're saying! I purchased my tort from a pet store because I didn't know the difference between wild caught and captive bred. It was certainly a rookie mistake that I will not make again! I understand so much more now and if I desire another tort it will be a captive bred or rescue. So many great things in Europe that we don't have here in America. Taking or stealing something out of it's natural habitat and selling it for profit is truly awful! Thank you again for your post. Best one of the day

 

[wellington]

Most wild caught is from years ago. I don't know if any are still allowed to be brought into the US as wild caught any more. The USA native tortoises are not to be taken from the wild as it is illegal.
of course there are always loop holes and plain old thieves that will steal them from the wild anyway.

 

[Rt1jen]

Most wild caught is from years ago. I don't know if any are still allowed to be brought into the US as wild caught any more. The USA native tortoises are not to be taken from the wild as it is illegal.
of course there are always loop holes and plain old thieves that will steal them from the wild anyway.

I've heard from many people on here that the torts that show up in pet stores are wild caught. Is this not true?

 

[wellington]

I've heard from many people on here that the torts that show up in pet stores are wild caught. Is this not true?

No, that is true as far as we know. Its mostly, if not only Russians. I don't know if they are still being caught and imported though or if it's the way they are being kept/raised. Tortoises are not allowed into this country until they are 4 inches. It's possible they are just ruff and older looking because of whoever is raising them up until they can be imported. I'm sure they are not kept in the best conditions as it would be only about the money for the importers. Years ago they were only WC and possibly still. There are a lot of Russian breeders where they wouldn't still have to get wild ones. Maybe some day there will be only captive bred.

 

[wellington]

Doing a bit of Internet searching, there is still big importing of mainly Russian tortoises. It is very sad, specially the conditions they are kept in before being imported. Many turtles too.

 

[Mark Tenerife]

Hi, great question and I totally agree with what you're saying! I purchased my tort from a pet store because I didn't know the difference between wild caught and captive bred. It was certainly a rookie mistake that I will not make again! I understand so much more now and if I desire another tort it will be a captive bred or rescue. So many great things in Europe that we don't have here in America. Taking or stealing something out of it's natural habitat and selling it for profit is truly awful! Thank you again for your post. Best one of the day

Most wild caught is from years ago. I don't know if any are still allowed to be brought into the US as wild caught any more. The USA native tortoises are not to be taken from the wild as it is illegal.
of course there are always loop holes and plain old thieves that will steal them from the wild anyway.

Very good point Wellington I hadn't thought about the older tortious that could be 50+ years old. Our view of conservation and wild life was so different back then. As you say there will be a "black market " for any exotic wild life such a shame it happens. Thanks for the reply it's given me another trail of thought. Bye for now M & Frieda

 

[Mark Tenerife]

Doing a bit of Internet searching, there is still big importing of mainly Russian tortoises. It is very sad, specially the conditions they are kept in before being imported. Many turtles too.

A friend who I haven't seen for years now had his hatchlings placed back in their natural habitat by a conservation project