Will someone with a leopard tortosie with no pyramiding post a picture?

haydog_99

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If you have a leopard tortoise that is a year or more older with no pyramiding will you please post a picture? I'd like to compare to my yearling.

Thanks in advance
 

Markw84

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Thanks everyone, here is a picture of my 10 month old, he's a midget at 92 grams.
@haydog_99 Your tortoise is pyramiding significantly. And combined with the extremely slow growth, I would really encourage you to revisit how your enclosure and care is currently compared to our care sheets here.

I live quite close to you and raise many tortoises in the exact conditions you have. I wrote this care sheet to explain a bit more for folks on raising what I refer to as "monsoon tortoises"


Please read that over, and see how and if there are any tweaks you can make to the setup for your tortoise.

It may also be that your tortoise was started from the beginning incorrectly by the breeder. Unfortunately this is more common and finding one who starts tortoises properly. Started too dry and with no food and daily soaks from the day they leave the egg, can often lead to a tortoise that appears OK, but will fail to grow properly. Yours has past the 60g mark, which shows it has started to grow. So the outlook is much better, but it will do so much better in "monsoon" type conditions.

Please read the linked thread I gave you above and come back with any and all quesions.

Mark
 

haydog_99

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Rocklin, CA
@haydog_99 Your tortoise is pyramiding significantly. And combined with the extremely slow growth, I would really encourage you to revisit how your enclosure and care is currently compared to our care sheets here.

I live quite close to you and raise many tortoises in the exact conditions you have. I wrote this care sheet to explain a bit more for folks on raising what I refer to as "monsoon tortoises"


Please read that over, and see how and if there are any tweaks you can make to the setup for your tortoise.

It may also be that your tortoise was started from the beginning incorrectly by the breeder. Unfortunately this is more common and finding one who starts tortoises properly. Started too dry and with no food and daily soaks from the day they leave the egg, can often lead to a tortoise that appears OK, but will fail to grow properly. Yours has past the 60g mark, which shows it has started to grow. So the outlook is much better, but it will do so much better in "monsoon" type conditions.

Please read the linked thread I gave you above and come back with any and all quesions.

Mark
Thanks, I just got him about three weeks ago so all of this was before I got him. There is so much conflicting information out there on raising these tortoises. I have been following happytortoises on youtube. She breeds the tortoises and has tons of video's. There seems to be a lot of information out there stating that the tortoises need micro climates and using an enclosure that is enclosed doesn't allow for that. Currently my enclosure have three zones, hot side where the basking rock is around 90 the center zone that runs about 80 and the cool side that runs in the mid 70's. I do keep the substrate wet and have a humid hide in the warm/hot side of the enclosure, temp in the humid hide runs around 80 and the humidity is around 75%. i'd say the overall humidity in the enclosure runs around 60%. I could easily completely enclose the top pretty easily. I have a zoomed tortoise tale and built a bracket that I have the lights attached to. I started weighing my tortoise about a week after I received him and he started out at 84 grams, and he has now made is way up to just over 90 grams in 10 days. He didn't do much for the first week and now he is starting to gain. I have an 80 watt Powersun light 8" above his basking rock and a heat emitter that warms the rest of the enclosure. I have the Powersun on a timer that runs from 7:00am to 5:00pm, I had it on longer but he always beds down before 5 and sleeps the entire night. I am using Lugarti natural reptile bedding that is easy to keep moist, I spray mist it down three or four times a day to keep things damp. I also have three areas of spagma moss that I keep wet to aid in the humidity. I guess I will go get some materials and close it in and see how things go.
 

Markw84

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Thanks, I just got him about three weeks ago so all of this was before I got him. There is so much conflicting information out there on raising these tortoises. I have been following happytortoises on youtube. She breeds the tortoises and has tons of video's. There seems to be a lot of information out there stating that the tortoises need micro climates and using an enclosure that is enclosed doesn't allow for that. Currently my enclosure have three zones, hot side where the basking rock is around 90 the center zone that runs about 80 and the cool side that runs in the mid 70's. I do keep the substrate wet and have a humid hide in the warm/hot side of the enclosure, temp in the humid hide runs around 80 and the humidity is around 75%. i'd say the overall humidity in the enclosure runs around 60%. I could easily completely enclose the top pretty easily. I have a zoomed tortoise tale and built a bracket that I have the lights attached to. I started weighing my tortoise about a week after I received him and he started out at 84 grams, and he has now made is way up to just over 90 grams in 10 days. He didn't do much for the first week and now he is starting to gain. I have an 80 watt Powersun light 8" above his basking rock and a heat emitter that warms the rest of the enclosure. I have the Powersun on a timer that runs from 7:00am to 5:00pm, I had it on longer but he always beds down before 5 and sleeps the entire night. I am using Lugarti natural reptile bedding that is easy to keep moist, I spray mist it down three or four times a day to keep things damp. I also have three areas of spagma moss that I keep wet to aid in the humidity. I guess I will go get some materials and close it in and see how things go.
I know there is a lot of conflicting info out there. The problem is everyone, including me, only had the books available on how to raise and care for tortoises and all the books said basically the same thing, but were written with incorrect conlclustions based on how they saw the "natural environment" of where the tortoises came from. We have learned so much since then for the tortoise keepers who are still open minded and wanting to learn and improve. Most, unfortunately are content with what they have been doing for years, and since it didn't kill the tortoise, they felt it worked. Most breeders don't see the damage done by these incorrect assumption with their hatchlings as they sell them and ship them to new homes and don't see the tortoise fail to survive or die in a few months. And if contacted, they blame the care at the new home.

I have not been satisfied with good enough. "Good enough" is the primary enemy of great! Just like many of the primary folks here on the forum, we are constantly questioning and sharing the best practices and go by results, not simply by what we've done for years! I was not satified raising a pyramided tortoise and was driven to find out how to raise a smooth, natural looking tortoise. Although considered cosmetic, pyramiding to me is a sign that conditions are not right, and just as the outside is growing deformed, so might be the insides.

Your substrate is good. IT is basically fir bark (orchid bark). It is what I recommend and use. But buy it from a garden center as fir bark/orchid bark and save 4-5 times the money as something marketed for reptiles. I buy at Green Acres and get the GreenAll Micro bark at $10 for 2 cu ft.

It is true that micro climates are necessary and how tortoises manage to survive in the wild. But in captivity, why not create the microclimate they are seeking with our enclosures? No need to create the other climates they are hiding from!

75° is too cool for a young tortoise. They do best closer to their optimal body temp which is in the mid 80°s. So I never let an enclosure drop below 80° in the coldest part day or night. I always keep humidity at 90% and the do much better as well. I believe plant cover is the natural hide and security for a tortoise as well as it creates the microclimate they seek - so they are conditioned to look for that type place.

Here's a picture of an enclosure I use for my baby stars. Followed by a picture I use for yearling stars. YOu have seen above a picture of a leopard I raised this way. I will add at the bottom a picture of a Burmese Star also that has been raised this way. Stars are at least as hard if not more so to raise without pyramiding unless conditions are perfect. I show this to allow you to judge the advice not by what I say, but the results it produces over, and over.

Please follow our care guidelines and you will see the difference in how your tortoise thrives and acts.

IMG_0823.JPG
IMG_0101(1).jpg
Here's a 10 month old Burmese Star...

IMG_0018(1).jpg

And here's a 5 month old sulcata!

IMG_0054.jpg
 

ZenHerper

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It's really important to keep in mind that tortoises are Very Old, evolutionarily speaking. The climates where we find them have changed, and changed, and changed, and changed.

They have adapted (as we all do, if we are fortunate).

But those adaptations have limitations. Eggs still need specific conditions. Hatchlings still need specific conditions. Juveniles, adults, breeding individuals, etc.. all still have specific requirements if any individual is to achieve Optimal survival and longevity.

Micro climates have to be survived in the wild. They can be overcome and even overridden in captivity.

 

Markw84

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It's really important to keep in mind that tortoises are Very Old, evolutionarily speaking. The climates where we find them have changed, and changed, and changed, and changed.

They have adapted (as we all do, if we are fortunate).

But those adaptations have limitations. Eggs still need specific conditions. Hatchlings still need specific conditions. Juveniles, adults, breeding individuals, etc.. all still have specific requirements if any individual is to achieve Optimal survival and longevity.

Micro climates have to be survived in the wild. They can be overcome and even overridden in captivity.

Yes, this is Interesting. I just found and read this paper about a month ago and found it of value. I'm glad you posted it here as I often try to speak to the fallicy of looking at "conditions in the wild" as confusing. Both because of interpreting microclimate, but equally as important, that conditions are not now what they have been the bulk of the existance and evolution of tortoises.
 

ZenHerper

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Yes, this is Interesting. I just found and read this paper about a month ago and found it of value. I'm glad you posted it here as I often try to speak to the fallicy of looking at "conditions in the wild" as confusing. Both because of interpreting microclimate, but equally as important, that conditions are not now what they have been the bulk of the existance and evolution of tortoises.
Well, most people in the U.S. don't have a great grasp of what evolution is, and what it is not. lol

DNA does not think or plan, it reacts. If an individual is not able to survive current conditions, it dies and its DNA ceases to participate. The species goes on with who-all is left.

A species is only able to significantly change over very long periods of time of surviving-adapting-dying-adapting-surviving... . Honey bees have evolved their Infanticide DNA to include abortion of larvae that are infected with mites, but many generations were plagued with death while this change was underway.


When climatic conditions change dramatically and overwhelm all levels of adaptation, as is happening right now, evolution cannot keep up. Think frogs, pollinators in general, polar bears, etc..

Part of what defines a "species" is its stability. Tortoise DNA is masterfully stable; it makes do and continues on through a wide variety of challenging conditions.
 

wellington

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Thanks, I just got him about three weeks ago so all of this was before I got him. There is so much conflicting information out there on raising these tortoises. I have been following happytortoises on youtube. She breeds the tortoises and has tons of video's. There seems to be a lot of information out there stating that the tortoises need micro climates and using an enclosure that is enclosed doesn't allow for that. Currently my enclosure have three zones, hot side where the basking rock is around 90 the center zone that runs about 80 and the cool side that runs in the mid 70's. I do keep the substrate wet and have a humid hide in the warm/hot side of the enclosure, temp in the humid hide runs around 80 and the humidity is around 75%. i'd say the overall humidity in the enclosure runs around 60%. I could easily completely enclose the top pretty easily. I have a zoomed tortoise tale and built a bracket that I have the lights attached to. I started weighing my tortoise about a week after I received him and he started out at 84 grams, and he has now made is way up to just over 90 grams in 10 days. He didn't do much for the first week and now he is starting to gain. I have an 80 watt Powersun light 8" above his basking rock and a heat emitter that warms the rest of the enclosure. I have the Powersun on a timer that runs from 7:00am to 5:00pm, I had it on longer but he always beds down before 5 and sleeps the entire night. I am using Lugarti natural reptile bedding that is easy to keep moist, I spray mist it down three or four times a day to keep things damp. I also have three areas of spagma moss that I keep wet to aid in the humidity. I guess I will go get some materials and close it in and see how things go.
Follow this forum and this forum only for correct info.
 

haydog_99

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Please
Not good:confused:.
please expand. I’ve seen a bunch of examples of leopard tortoises growing at very different rates. He seems to be doing fine he’s eating well, drinking, very active and most of all gaining weight. I started weighing him on February 28th and he was 84 grams. He’s gained 8 grams in 14 days, should I be concerned? I would be more worried if he wasn’t gaining weight. He will be one year on 4/30, according to the Breeder.
 

Jenna kamenski

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Looks like he was about the same size as Max at 1. Do you know how much he weighed when you got him? He’s beautiful.
Torque was 54 grams!! And is now about 15lbs! The kitchen scale we were using went up to like 10lbs and then wouldn’t work anymore so we started using a bathroom scale...not too sure how accurate that is but I can bet 15lbs is about right
 

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