Will a male sulcata mount a male sulcata....

[poshpoodle]

I thought all of my sulcatas were males. However, I have a male that mounted another ...male?? Well, I just got several larger sulcatas and was told they were all males. However, my original sulcata mounted him/her yesterday and was on him/her for a bit. I did see his male parts come out and he was grunting. He was on her for a bit but could not really see if his male bits penetrated. I know males will mount each other to show dominance but would they do that and grunt and stick out their male bits? Does that mean i do have a female or still possibly both males? Also, if mounted and bred how long before there are eggs? Does it mean there will definitely be eggs? So new to all of this. My red foots were all mating yesterday too. I now have 7 sulcatas from 3 # to 100#'s and 13 red foots in varying sizes. They do all live together and did from the people I got them all from. I know not everyone agrees with that but they are living in harmony here. I could take pics of all of the undersides of my tortoises to see if guesses are there about male/female but i am not sure which one he mounted at this point.
Any help is appreciated.

 

[poshpoodle]

Anyone??

 

[Levi the Leopard]

Males can mount females
Males can mount other males
Females can mount males
Females can mount other females

Mounting isn't always about breeding and reproduction. It's also a territorial, aggressive and or dominance behavior.

In your case, the current resident was mounting the new guy most likely as a "get out of my territory". Some photos for gender confirmation would help but I still think is rather likely.

You say they live in harmony but describe a situation that does not sound harmonious for the mounted.

 

[JennBell0725]

Yes a male will mount a male to assert dominance. If you show pictures though their are quite a few people who can help you sex them.

 

[Tom]

I think you might not be getting any answers because nobody wants to get into to this mess...

Your tortoises are not living in harmony. You just don't know how to recognize tortoise dis-harmony yet.

Redfoots shout NOT be living with sulcatas. This is a dangerous situation for both species on so many levels. Please at least separate the species.

About your sulcatas: Yes males will mount other males, and its not good if they do. There should only be one male per enclosure. Post pics of their tails and anal scutes and we can help you sex them. They usually do not copulate in the hotter summer months, but the males will still try. Whether the eggs get fertilized or not depends on whether or not the female lets the male "in". If she did then you should get eggs in about 30 days. If this is a first time female, you will likely get some dud and broken eggs just dropped on the surface around the enclosure. In your case, these might get eaten, or it might have already happened, and you didn't see it. This all definitely does not mean you will get eggs. You might though.

 

[sissyofone]

IMO yes males can and will mount each other. As far as you having all those living together. Living in Harmony as you put it, Is Way more of a Risk than I'd be willing to take. Regardless of weather they get along or not the chances of you loosing all of them to sickness is IMO too big of a risk. These torts would never cross paths in the wild and
Imo there's reasons for that. Your Redfoots carry different pathogens than Sulcatas systems may be able to handle and vice verse. Also Redfoots require different care higher humidity requirements. IMO the care both species needs is way different than each other. The Redfoots diet is also lots different than a Sulcata and as far as their sizes are concerned, I certainly would not want a 100# sullie roaming an enclosure with my reds or even a small 3# sulcata. Just because someone else was given bad advice and housed them all together doesn't mean they SHOULD be kept that way. I wish you the best and all your torts but please reconsider the housing of them.

** As I stated this is my opinion, and I'm only offering this info as that.

 

[poshpoodle]

My yard is divided in two sections I will think of how to spearate. I figured health wise and disease wise it would be ok because they have always lived together. I was told the sulcatas did not fight etc in their smaller enclosure from the people that had them- but they started here. I separated the large male from the other sulcatas. And they have not been fighting now. Will learn more....

 

[Yellow Turtle01]

'Tis the season for lonely torts... lalalal la la la
Also, as other people have said, mounting can be aggressive. Torts usually do not live in harmony, so I would guess if they are both males, it is social scale type thing.

 

[poshpoodle]

Ok, thank you all for bearing with me. I suppose I got so excited about the torts that I jumped in with both feet. I am currently looking for fencing to house the red foots in a different part of my yard. I hope I did not upset anyone too bad. I want what is best for them, I really do. The sulcatas are not mounting each other any more. However, I have moved the largest to a separate area of my yard because he was bullying the others. I do believe that the others are likely males but I am truly not sure. When I have the chance I will take pics of all of their undersides. Now, no one is mounting anyone except for red foots mounting red foots. I assume eventually I will have baby red foots.

I was mistaken to believe that since they had always been housed together that it was ok and would live in harmony. Nothing like learning as you go- it is not good but I guess I am learning the hard way.

We are currently building a heated tortoise house for when it gets cooler here in GA. We poured concrete and will have cinder block walls , a heater and lights. We will try to keep humidity up with our water turtles kept in the same enclosure on shelving high up in rubbermaid stock tanks- would that be ok or inadvisable too? I am trying to get all the info I can. I want them to be happy, healthy and thrive.

I assume the best place to house the red foots is in the most shaded part of my yard. What do you all do to keep humidity up when housed outdoors for sulcatas and also for red foots? I go out and hose down the yard a couple of times a day. We will be building concrete , shallow ponds in each section- one for the red foots and one for the large sulcata and one for the other males. I understand that it is not advisable to house males together but they are getting along now and actually a few tend to hang together quite often. There are two free standing buildings they can go under and all around- as they are getting along do I still have to rehome or keep separated as long as I keep an eye on them?

Can anyone suggest to me their advice on anything they would do to house their red foots? I am going to read more about them here and on line but suppose here is the absolute best place to acquire information.

Please forgive me. I am trying to do better. I assumed that the people that had had them for so many years knew what was ok. However, the red foots have lots of pyramiding and they were all housed in a much much smaller area. I want to build an area that they will love. I have Lyme disease and am not able to do a lot anymore. My tortoises make me happy and get my mind off of things when I am having a rough time. They make me smile when they come running to me. I truly love them already. I appreciate everyones comments and positive criticism. I will do the best I can and hope it will be pleasing to them. Until I get fencing I thought about making a cinder block partition for the red foots to stay on one side and the sulcatas to stay on the other- the problem is i work about the sulcatas knocking over the cinder blocks if just stacked and hurting the red foots. Praying I can find some inexpensive fencing on craigslist. Money is a bit tight now as we just found out our dog has Addisons's disease and had to get a $150 shot monthly for the rest of her life. These babies get expensive but bring me so much joy!

 

[Yvonne G]

Hey, Brandy - relax! None of us here is pointing fingers at you. I give you lots of credit for accepting our advice and not fighting it. We all were at the un-educated stage at the beginning, and the way we learned was by listening and researching.

Yes, your new tortoises are older, however, YOU are new to the game. So you should read all the important threads at the top of the sulcata section, and read about redfooted tortoises at the Tortoise Library

It's a whole new world for you. The folks you got your tortoises from are old school. What you read here on the Forum is new and up to date info. So forget all that you've been told before joining up here, and read our info with an open mind.

I use salvaged lumber for all my tortoise fencing. At first I was using cinderblocks. That's another cheap and easy way. But you need to use something that is not see through. If a tortoise can see through the fence he'll spend most of his time trying to get through it.

 

[poshpoodle]

Thank you, Yvonne! I just felt bad because i put them in harms way. My husband and son built a fence previously that is 3' tall and goes down one portion of my yard. He said the other day he is not building a fence anytime soon again. He has been a sport, doing the fence and pouring concrete, etc.. I also scored some tress and a few shrubs at 80% off to add more shade and not as much sun in the yard and to have it looking more natural. So I got over $500 worth of plants for just $100. I have been checking the lists to see if they are ok for the torts I am currently looking to buy thornless cactus but not sure where to find it. I just want to make sure my yard is a place of happiness for the torts but a place I can lay in my hammock and relax and see them too. All help is appreciated- even if someone were jumping me for my mistakes, it would be understandable I suppose, you all are so passionate about your torts. I just hope I can show you all my yard when it is fixed up and get the approval and be told any thing that can make it even better. I imagine it will never be complete- always having a project to do for them to improve their enclosure. Thank you again! Oh, as far as concrete wading pools- shallow, I have seen people put a drain on them. That is my hope but how do you stop it up? Do you use a plug and how do the tortoises not dislodge them?? Thank you in advance for any feedback!

 

[Turtlepete]

Concrete ponds are a little tricky. A drain isn't plugged up at the drain itself, but further down the pipe. Typically there is a valve somewhere along the drain pipe (there has to be a pipe to lead the water away) that can be turned off or on. The problem here is that the pond must be elevated compared to wherever your draining it to. Basically, either the pond has to build up above the rest of the yard so the drainage pipe can be slightly above level, or the drainage pipe can be drained into a large hole dug somewhere to drain it into. Like a septic tank, I guess. Maybe someone out there has a better method I've never heard of, but thats typically how it works.

Its good that your doing what is best for them now, and don't worry about anybody pointing fingers at you. You fixed the problems, all is well now. Those reds will likely do fine in a large group like that, but give them a lot of space. Several hundred square feet, if you can. You may have one or two aggressors as is always possible, but again, in a group that large they should be fine. Red's do love sun, but you want a lot of shade as well. Maybe 50/50. If there is a part of your yard that is prone to flood during heavy rain, thats where I'd put them. Red's LOVE mud. Where my enclosure is for my group floods during heavy rain, and they will bury themselves almost entirely in mud. They will definitely appreciate a pond as well. Lots of vegetation. If you don't get a lot of rainfall, I would definitely suggest installing a sprinkler. Your red's will love you for it .