WHY THIS FORUM IS IMPORTANT-THE SHOW TODAY

[N2TORTS]

Ok …I will be as gentle as possible and I hope not offend any memebers here who are part of that club ...…
But are you kidding me ?
I went to the CTTS Show in Long Beach today thanks to heads up by BIGRED ( I was looking for you ) I have never been to one of these events and didn’t know what to expect. Well …..tons of Desert Torts ( which is the main objective of the club) and funny to talk with the people who owned them ….most were not even from California ~
Ok now the Horrible part ….there were a few other torts to be seen , and in this case a Redfoot with a horrible beak badly in need of a trim …and talking with the guy he really had no clue and the “ kicker“ was a Tort Vet was 2 booths down from him ?….and once again the only other Redfoot there …..with a “bad beak” .
Now I understand about sharing and presentation but really , keeping a Radi’, Egyptian and Leo all in the same tank ?…..Those two exotic torts could buy 50 leo’s! Yet this person is willing to keep them together for the day for a show ? …..
And these folks are giving out advice ? ……ARE YOU SERIOUS???
* WHY THIS FORUM IS IMPORTANT* …….
REAL PEOPLE - REAL INFORMATION!
Here is the first Redfoot …..

The second ….. This guy at least was friendly talking too ….

The “ Mixture Guy” ……


The tort Doc…….2 doors down from a grotesque in need of care Redfoot

( I sure hope he helped his fellow booth member )

Oh yea ….. Now I’m old no doubt … but do you have to be over 70 to own a desert tortoise? …at first I thought I was in the “ Bunko” room !

 

[theelectraco]

Those pictures (including the Leo one) are really disappointing.

 

[GeoTerraTestudo]

Ya know, it is kind of shocking how many reptile expos house tortoise in mixed-species display pens. Just a disease outbreak waiting to happen.

As for the overgrown beaks, that really does surprise me. I always thought the CTTS was a really sharp group. Maybe some members haven't learned the basics yet?

 

[theelectraco]

Maybe we need a Tortoise Forum booth or cards to pass out,

 

[bigred]

Ya thats the first thing I noticed when I walked in was the mixed species

 

[Yvonne G]

You neglected to mention the russian with the redfoot in the first picture. And they're on alfalfa pellets. How old school can you get?

This doesn't surprise me. There are two turtle and tortoise clubs in Fresno, and one of them is a chapter of CTTC. This means there are at the very least, about 100 people in my area who have an interest in turtles and tortoises. However, there are only three Forum members that I know of who are members of either club. They have their meetings once a month and talk about all the old school ways of keeping turtles and tortoises, and don't seem interested at all in learning anything new.

When I adopt out turtles and tortoises I used to give club info to the people. But I don't anymore. Now I give out Forum info.

 

[theelectraco]

To me it seems like they were targeting newcomers to the tortoise world and not experienced tortoise keepers.

 

[N2TORTS]

Ya know, it is kind of shocking how many reptile expos house tortoise in mixed-species display pens. Just a disease outbreak waiting to happen.

As for the overgrown beaks, that really does surprise me. I always thought the CTTS was a really sharp group. Maybe some members haven't learned the basics yet?

Bingo on both accounts ..... honest not one person I talked with new a whole lot .... and EVEN WORSE THEY KEPT CALLING THEM DAM TURTLES!.....even the Club Members ...* I thought recording it was going a bit too far* ..

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I played dumb of course! .........I dont think they have ever seen a tattooed midget before ... it threw them off~

 

[wellington]

The same sad thing at the reptile show I had gone too, run by a reptile club, my first one also that i had been to run by the club. I don't get it. I don't think I will go back. I was totally disgusted. Wasn't nice to a few of them either. Considering joining the club though, to educate them. I will probably be thrown out LOL. I can't believe the conditions of those RF. You should have gotten the name of the vet, so you could not recommend them.

 

[bigred]

Actually the guy standing in front of the mixed radiated and leopard tank was not the owner of the torts, he was watching the tank. The owner of that mixed bunch was the guy outside who owned the spider tortoises. Im not sure if he keeps them with the spiders or not. My mom is trying to adopt a hatchling CDT so I was talking to the older folks about that. I got in there right at 10 o clock when it opened, Mom doesnt like crowds because of her walker.

 

[Millerlite]

I see a lot of mix species and such at shows and many other places. I know a few people that don't find it wrong as long as requirements are about the same, they have room and are cb. And they I know people that are no no and say don't do it not good. That being said, I know owners that have had animals together for a very long time no problems what's so ever, as long as care is the same and there is no aggression etc. I also know people that have lost a lot if prized animals and lets because of mixing. So I'm personally in the don't risk it why do it, but also can"t get made at people that mix.

The real fact is, the people older members on this forums and the ones that check it everyday and make it part of their day are unique. We care about turtles and Toetoises (or turtles again lol) way more then others can even imagine. I've always found that educating, and trying to guide people or giving info to someone is the best way. Especially if they see your passion it can ignite another person into the hobby.

From what I understand those clubs are open to anyone and I'm sure they get a handful of people that are in the breeding game, or just new. I hope you mentioned to some of the people why you think they should separate them or trim the beak.
"

Ps- I always hated when people call tortoises turtles and turtles tortoises. Haha I always am like no no no. This is why! Haha sorry bugs me

 

[N2TORTS]

I see a lot of mix species and such at shows and many other places.
Shows or club events? I have never seen a reputable breeder or serious keeper mix tortoise at any of the Major shows in the 25 + years I have gone to them .


I know a few people that don't find it wrong as long as requirements are about the same, they have room and are cb.
Knowing a few people and being correct is two different things


And they I know people that are no no and say don't do it not good. That being said, I know owners that have had animals together for a very long time
You cant be much older than 25 from your Icon . I have tortoises older than that ... no problems what's so ever, as long as care is the same and there is no aggression etc.
Your cannot see internal parasites, RI and other viruses until it’s too late …and you have a sick tort … why even chance it ?
I also know people that have lost a lot if prized animals
There is a different investment in the exotics and not worth any risk So I'm personally in the don't risk it why do it, but also can"t get made at people that mix.
Thats a Contradiction ..Statement
The real fact is, the people older members on this forums and the ones that check it everyday and make it part of their day are unique.
I'm one of those older folks with alot of time and monies spent on my animals I don't risk or chance anything ...*it's part of the learning process* We care about turtles and Toetoises (or turtles again lol) way more then others can even imagine. I've always found that educating, and trying to guide people or giving info to someone is the best way. Especially if they see your passion it can ignite another person into the hobby. Your right !
From what I understand those clubs are open to anyone and I'm sure they get a handful of people that are in the breeding game,Breeding game? .....It's no game ,try more like .. alot of work , luck,determination and working more everyday to keep healthy tortoises thru out the year ... by no means is it easy ....I promise you that !
or just new. I hope you mentioned to some of the people why you think they should separate them or trim the beak It wasn’t the place or time to help folks who know everything already

Like I said ..... this forum is a wealth of knowledge with lots' of experience



JD~

 

[Angi]

I see stuff like that at the SDTTS meetings once in a while and I know they really care about the animals (the mixing)for some reason people think Russian and boxies go together . Anyway as a person with OCD I have a hard time watching them handle one species and then another without washing their hands. That really bothers me.

 

[GeoTerraTestudo]

Re: Keeping mixed species
Well, the main concern is not environmental requirements. The main concern is disease contagion. Two turtles from opposite ends of the planet may have identical needs for temperature, humidity, and lighting. However, they can give each other exotic diseases. A pathogen may be minor in the species where it's commonly found, but lethal in another species where it's new. This is why we avoid mixing species, or at least those that do not coexist in nature.

Re: Tortoise vs. turtle
Members in previous threads have pointed out that calling tortoises "turtles" can lead to dangerously poor care, as in thinking that a sulcata belongs in a pond! Obviously, in that sense, distinguishing between tortoises and other turtles (including box turtles) is very important. However, all chelonians are commonly known as turtles. Therefore, tortoises are turtles ... they just happen to be the ones that are the most terrestrial and herbivorous. I call my Russian tortoises my turtles all the time because it saves me one syllable.

 

[Millerlite]

There are a lot of people that still do it, they might not be on this forum, but i know people that have and probably still do ( some of these people haven't spoke to in awhile) and they been doing it for years and years and years ( back when we talked) I know you want to think tortoises wont live years and years together but that's just not a true fact it has and probably still being done. I'm not trying to drop names but there are a handful of them that i met and knew. And yes they were older, which i dont even know what age has to do with it, cuz i know a lot of older people that dont know much about toetoises and turtles lol. Anyways, i would think its actually a more common practice that we separate animals now A days, ad it seems like way more people are informed on it. Seems like not even that long ago we didn't know much about microorganism in tortoises and turtles and if someone saw two species in an enclosure together they wouldn't of even said anything . Also I guess I am a little younger using game isn't really meant to be a actual game. I know it's a lot of work I hatched a handful of eggs in my short life and it is a lot of work and Or at least can be a lot of work. I learn stuff every day on this forum and older forums that seemed to have fizzled away. I'm glad people are upset by the fact they are mixing species but best thing we can do is tell the and hope they change it. Man do I miss my Egyptian seems you can't even find them anymore. Very delicate tho, surprised they aren't getting sick being in a viewing rank with all that stress. Maybe I was always paranoid with mine Idk to all his own

Oh and yeah I don't mix my species and I don't get mad at people that do, I advice people not too, if they don't know it isn't good , then it's up to them if they want to take the advice. Can't get mad at every little thing, especially for as long as ive been on forum boards, We are all hear to mostly learn, and share what we have learned.

 

[N2TORTS]

Re: Keeping mixed species
Well, the main concern is not environmental requirements. The main concern is disease contagion. Two turtles from opposite ends of the planet may have identical needs for temperature, humidity, and lighting. However, they can give each other exotic diseases. A pathogen may be minor in the species where it's commonly found, but lethal in another species where it's new. This is why we avoid mixing species, or at least those that do not coexist in nature.

Re: Tortoise vs. turtle
Members in previous threads have pointed out that calling tortoises "turtles" can lead to dangerously poor care, as in thinking that a sulcata belongs in a pond! Obviously, in that sense, distinguishing between tortoises and other turtles (including box turtles) is very important. However, all chelonians are commonly known as turtles. Therefore, tortoises are turtles ... they just happen to be the ones that are the most terrestrial and herbivorous. I call my Russian tortoises my turtles all the time because it saves me one syllable.

Ok ...Geo ....I guess I'm not the common one ~
and I know you know this up coming info but for folks who don't ....

In order to study living things, scientists classify each organism according to its:

Kingdom

Phylum

Class

Order

Family

Genus

Species

Usually, a species is called by its genus name (capitalized) followed by its species name (lower case), so a human being is called Homo sapiens. In Latin that means "wise man."


To date there are five kingdoms: Animalia, which is made up of animals; Plantae, which is made up of plants; Protista, which is made up of protists (single-celled creatures invisible to the human eye); Fungi, which is made up of mushrooms, mold, yeast, lichen, etc; and Monera, which is made up of the three types of bacteria.
The next category is the Phylum. There are several phyla within each kingdom. The phyla start to break the animals (or plants, fungi, etc) into smaller and more recognizable groups. The best known phylum is Chordata, which contains all animals with backbones (fish, birds, mammals, reptiles, amphibians). There is also Arthropoda (insects, spiders, crustaceans); Mollusca (snails, squid, clam); Annelida (segmented worms); Echinodermata (starfish, sea urchins) and many, many more.

The next category that makes up the phyla is the Class. The class breaks up animals into even more familiar groups. For example, the phylum Chordata is broken down into several classes, including Aves (birds), Reptilia (reptiles), Amphibia (amphibians), Mammalia (mammals) and several others.

The next category is the Order. Each class is made up of one or more orders. Mammalia can be broken down into Rodentia (mice, rats), Primates (Old- and New-World monkeys), Chiroptera (bats), Insectivora (shrews, moles), Carnivora (dogs, cats, weasels), Perissodactyla (horses, zebras), Artiodactyla (cows), Proboscidea (elephants) and many more.

Orders can then be broken down into Families. The order Carnivora can be broken down into Canidae (dogs), Felidae (cats), Ursidae (bears), Hyaenidae (hyaenas, aardwolves), Mustelidae (weasels, wolverines), and many more.

The next category is the Genus. The family Felidae, for example, can be broken down into Acinonyx (cheetah), Panthera (lion, tiger), Neofelis (clouded leopard) and Felis (domestic cats).

Finally, the genus is broken down into the Species. The genus Panthera can be broken down to include Panthera leo (lion) and Panthera tigris (tiger). Note that the genus is placed in front of the species.

Main group of Invertebrates are :
The largest and most commonly studied phyla of animals are:

Porifera (sponges)
Cnidaria (jellyfish, hydras, sea anemones, Portuguese man-of-wars, and corals)
Platyhelminthes (flatworms, including planaria, flukes, and tapeworms)
Nematoda (roundworms, including rotifers and nematodes)
Mollusca (mollusks, including bivalves, snails and slugs, and octopuses and squids)
Annelida (segmented worms, including earthworms, leeches, and marine worms)
Echinodermata (including sea stars, sea cucumbers, sand dollars, and sea urchins)
Arthropods (including arachnids, crustaceans, millipedes, centipedes, and insects)
Chordata (animals with nerve chords - this group includes the vertebrates)




KINGDOM NR.OF SPECIES

Bacteria.............................................. 4,000
Protoctists (algae, protozoa, etc)......... 80,000
Animals, vertebrates........................... 52,000
Animals, invertebrates.................... 1,272,000
Fungi................................................. 72,000
Plants.............................................. 270,000

Total number of described species... 1,750,000
Possible nr. with unknown species: 14,000,000

*from the United Nations publication: UNEP-WCMC (2000). Global Biodiversity: Earth's living resources in the 21st century. Cambridge, World Conservation Press.

 

[Millerlite]

Oh and I'm aware of the evolution, microorganism, and immune systems concerns. (quarantine is also another one of those Should does but some dont convos) I've had people lose whole groups because of the risky nature in keeping different species together, and guess what all their species are separate now. So guess some people just need to learn it te hard way.

 

[N2TORTS]

It's all good Mr. Miller .......no bad vibes here!

 

[Millerlite]

I know I never got any bad vibes, oh I'm a young guy and I love learning from everyone, and of course I envy your Redfooted tortoise jd

 

[Levi the Leopard]

Re: RE: WHY THIS FORUM IS IMPORTANT-THE SHOW TODAY

Maybe we need a Tortoise Forum booth or cards to pass out,

I plan to be just this!

I am setting up a booth at the Chino show and have a whole bunch of info to present the "humid way". I'm promoting TFO and want to make an impact!

Fellow members still use alfalfa pellet substrate, red basking lights, no uv bulbs, mixing species, housing sulcata pairs, etc...some things I hear shock me.

But I keep there to take a stand for a different and better way!

Don't lose hope!

I plan to post all my info/pictures here after my show. you will notice it is direct than what you experienced.

Heather
sent while on my purple android TFOapp

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"it is different, not direct"

Heather
sent while on my purple android TFOapp