Why is Mazuri so popular, I don't get it.

Cathie G

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If the question was:
"Are products like MAZURI necessary for tortoises keeping?"
The answer would be a very fast "no".
I have no doubt that an ideal natural diet is best.
But as keepers of exotic animals, keeping these animals in areas where they do not naturally live, Mazuri is very helpful.
And I still have seen no proof that it is the least bit harmful......except anecdotally.
I've been using it sporadically for over 20 yearss. As a part of the diet. Some days the sole ingredient. And my Redfoot are as beautiful and as healthy as anyones.
This exact topic has come up several times and I still can not agree that Mazuri is anything but a decent and real (and a responsible) option.
Yep. I want to use a little as a supplement only for my little tortoise. I do the same with my bunny. She gets her hay but also a small amount of grass based pellets for backup.
 

Cathie G

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I adopted a leopard tortoise with no skills and no experience whatsoever from another person who had absolutely no knowledge of leopard tortoise needs. I have had desert tortoises in Arizona for many years and they are very different than the leopard. The leopard I had adopted was looking like a “failure to thrive” stuck under 50 g for many months with pyramiding on the shell and eating grocery store poor quality lettuces. I started soaking, I started using a variety of weeds, cactus pads, grasses and other items and still was getting nowhere. I was at a loss and have been following quite a number of recommendations from people on this forum. One of them was to try Mazuri pellets. My tortoise hates them (the deserts love them as I used them upon them). It doesn’t matter if I soak them, grind them, mix them or anything else. What I did discover, however, was that when I started getting dry leaf supplements from people like Will I could add things that attracted my tortoise to the food mix. Currently his two favorites are nettle and raspberry leaves although he’s gone through phases where he likes dry rose petals or dry hibiscus. I have multiple fresh hibiscus plants that the desert tortoises eat but he won’t touch them. Tortoises are interesting to try to feed and to try to give healthy complete diets and I think what everybody’s really trying to say is if the Mazuri pellets help them to get their tortoises to eat properly, grow well or get through the winter then it’s terrific. Not that it matters, but I’m a physician (endocrinologist). I also own horses and dogs and I have a friend that develops specialized horse pellets/feed for various health conditions. Equine nutrition has changed tremendously (as has human) as we have developed knowledge and gained experience and I agree with everyone on the forum that sharing their knowledge and experience hatching, raising, and maintaining healthy tortoises is much more valuable than reading an ingredient list. Unfortunately, as is well documented on this forum, there is very little understanding or experience through most of the veterinary community on the proper care of many tortoise breeds so we just do our best and share our experiences. It would be great if we could start sharing publications of well performed prospective research on diet for tortoises but it isn’t likely to be funded so I just rely on people who have done years of work with excellent results and there are many on this forum. Great and interesting discussion! PS...All of my tortoises have an obsession with eating dog poop and it’s very annoying.
??
 

Cathie G

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Yes I am, I know everything you do?

I wouldn't buy any of them?? but... If had 2, i'd pick LS. It contains timothy, it absolutely the best of the 2.
Good to know. Timothy is a regular around here since I have a bunna too. I bought the small bag of the wrong mazzuri.
 

Cathie G

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This is a good conversation, I like it! And you know, I'm not trying to be a know-it-all here and pretend I know it all. I don't, I know quite a few things and I've learned quite few things, but I still learn every day. I'm open to things, but I question them too! I also get where you're coming from!

My recommendation wasn't really one? She asked what I would pick and I honestly just said none, because at this point, I wouldn't. Then I said If I had to pick 1, I'd pick the LS, because the ingredients agree with me more because the majority is Timothy hay, which is more in the line of what a tortoise would eat naturally, instead if soy and corn.

The seccond reason would be the addictive factor it can have. I saw it with my own horse when I switched to pre alpin, he hated it because he wanted sweet, all horses do. He wouldn't eat it and it became very difficult. He was very ill at the time so he needed to eat, but not his original pellets who made it worse. We got there in the end, but it wasn't fun.

I know horses aren't torts. But I do know, out of experience, what certain foods can do. Even my old dad, who's as old fashioned as they come, had to admit it (and that was hard?). The pellets do more with a horse than make them grow nicely etc, they also have an influence on their behaviour. Food in general, mainly pellets and grain types, have an influence.

We had 2 stallions a few years ago, 3 and 4 and both had a nasty temperament. So I said to my dad, maybe if we feed them differently, they'd become a bit more docile. He knows food has an influence, that's not new info, but not the pellets, they were fine, not heavy on the grains, they're fine. So I said you feed 1 your way, i feed the other one my way. So we did and mine became a bit better, not a sheep, but a bit better to manage. And it makes sense, not because I want to be right, but because the pellets are full of starches=sugar and molasses=sugar. They're big horses, they eat 2/3 kilo's a day+hay. So it made a difference, he reluctantly had to admit. And of course with my ppid horse, so then he realized, yeah it does do more.

A friend of mine breeds guineapigs for fun and shows?So she also deals with their medical issues. The majority of guineapig foods are heavy on the soy, corn, wheat and alfalfa for 30+ years. This started around the same time horsefood started to change. Guineapigs are very prone to blatter infections and kidney stones. Since a few years they've realized that these pellets have something to do with that. She's also experimenting with more natural pellets made of hay, herbs etc for a few years now. And the new generation of these little critters have less issues than their parents.

What do horses, guineapigs and Torts have in common? Not much, except they eat similar type foods naturally= hay, grasses, herbs, flowers, etc. The industry also makes the same type of foods for them for 30+ years: soy, soy hulls, corn, wheat. combo's.

So all these things make me wonder. I'm a middle ground person too, but all these things make me wonder.
Rabbits are like that too. I've seen the toxic lists for many animals. The lists are basically the same. Corn is a low level toxin but if you actually raise a baby on it and they don't grow up healthy? Wouldn't that cause you to question?
 

vladimir

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I’m with Wellington on this issue as well. Once our Sully goes outside for the Summertime I don’t provide any Mazuri. Once Winter comes & our Sully is back inside with a much limited food supply she gets a cup or two of Mazuri per week. I no longer moisten the pellets - i hear the crunch crunch crunch.

Vlad crunches on it and crumbs go flying out of his beak ? he can't resist a Mazuri
 

lxsnmls

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Why is mazuri so popular? Tbh, I don't get it. The way to read an ingredients list is, the ingredient mentioned first, is what the product contains most of. Then the seccond etc etc.


I have a horse and horses and herbivore tortoises are very similar when it comes to feeding. You see the same type of stuff in horsefeed, super popular but ingredients wise very mediocre.
My horse has a serious chronic illness and feeding certain ingredients like corn, molasses, soy/hulls etc make it worse. So a long time ago (horse is 24 now) I had to do some serious research in horsefood and ingredients.


To me the ingredients are not great. Mazuri LS is a bit better because it at least contains timothy hay as the biggest ingredient, but still, mediocre in my opnion. Mazuri TD's biggest ingredient is soybean hulls, so the shell of a soybean? then corn, soymeal, wheat midds, molasses (=sugar/syrup) etc.
To me that is not great.


Sure it contains fiber, quite low protein. Cat and dog hair also contains lots of fiber? or chicken feathers. I think they both contain very low quality ingredients, 1 more than the other.


My horse, the previous tort (past away in his 90's), and my current tort, all eat the same stuff: Pre Alpin. The company is German (I'm Dutch, so their neighbor?) and they make natural horse, rodents, tortoise and other livestock foods.
The horse/tortoise one is exactly the same:meadow grasses, herbs, flowers, weeds from the Alps. Zoomed tortoise grasslands comes the closest to Pre Alpin I think. Yes the majority of my horses diet is hay/grass/weeds and the torts weeds/leafy greens etc, but the Pre Alpin is a nice completion of the diet.


You see this in alot of tortoise foods. I looked at Komodo cucumber for instance: zero cucumber and all soy/corn/wheat. Interesting?


Mazuri tortoise diet:
Ground soybean hulls, ground corn, dehulled soybean meal, ground oats, wheat middlings, cane molasses, dehydrated alfalfa meal, wheat germ, dicalcium phosphate, soybean oil, brewers dried yeast, calcium carbonate, salt, dl-methionine, choline chloride, pyridoxine hydrochloride, d-alpha tocopheryl acetate (form of vitamin E), biotin, cholecalciferol, menadione sodium bisulfite complex (source of vitamin K), calcium pantothenate, vitamin A acetate, folic acid, riboflavin, preserved with mixed tocopherols, rosemary extract, nicotinic acid, vitamin B12 supplement, thiamine mononitrate, citric acid, l-lysine, manganous oxide, zinc oxide, ferrous carbonate, copper sulfate, zinc sulfate, calcium iodate, sodium selenite, cobalt carbonate.


Mazuri LS:
Ground Timothy Hay, Ground Soybean Hulls, Dehulled Soybean Meal, Dried Plain Beet Pulp, Oat Hulls, Wheat Middlings, Cane Molasses, Dried Apple Pomace, Ground Flaxseed, Carrageenan, Ground Oats, Rice Flour, Wheat Germ, Dicalcium Phosphate, Calcium Carbonate, Sucrose, Fructose, Artificial Flavors, Soybean Oil, Potassium Chloride, Brewers Dried Yeast, Salt, L-Lysine, Choline Chloride, DL-Methionine, Pyridoxine Hydrochloride, Dried Lactobacillus acidophilus Fermentation Product, Dried Lactobacillus casei Fermentation Product, d-Alpha Tocopheryl Acetate, Dried Bifidobacterium thermophilum Fermentation Product, Vitamin D3 Supplement, Dried Enterococcus faecium Fermentation Product, Biotin, Yucca schidigera Extract, Menadione Sodium Bisulfite Complex (source of Vitamin K), Calcium Pantothenate, Vitamin A Acetate, Folic Acid, Manganous Oxide, Riboflavin Supplement, Preserved with Mixed Tocopherols, Zinc Oxide, Ferrous Carbonate, Thiamine Mononitrate, Rosemary Extract, Carotene, Citric Acid (a Preservative), Vitamin B12 Supplement, Nicotinic Acid, Copper Sulfate, Zinc Sulfate, Calcium Iodate, Sodium Selenite Cobalt Carbonate.
Well, after reading the original post and the subsequent thread, y'all have convinced me to try a commercial diet for SUPPLEMENTING Terry Tortelli's diet (and/or as a treat if he likes it) ;-). However, I agree with Kim&Tim about the ingredients and will go with the ZooMed Grassland... looks to be a better choice for a desert tortoise with no added sugar/molasses... and it even has dried dandelion greens!
 

Lokkje

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I see you're in Phoenix and have (or had) DTs... some others I've seen have much "prettier"/more vibrant colored shells and I've wondered why his looks so "muted/muddy"... does coloration vary between habitats/territories? No matter, I'm crazy about him... he's my Zen Master ;-)
I’ve ended up reading over 300 and there is a wide righty of show colors and patterns but that’s what makes them so fascinating.
 

Lokkje

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Breeding/reading. I shouldn’t use the microphone on this thing because I’m apparently a mush mouth.
 

Tom

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Well, after reading the original post and the subsequent thread, y'all have convinced me to try a commercial diet for SUPPLEMENTING Terry Tortelli's diet (and/or as a treat if he likes it) ;-). However, I agree with Kim&Tim about the ingredients and will go with the ZooMed Grassland... looks to be a better choice for a desert tortoise with no added sugar/molasses... and it even has dried dandelion greens!
That is cool. Just realize that the first few times your tortoise sees it, it probably won't like it or want to eat it. Don't give up. Start with just a tiny tiny broken piece of a pellet, soak it for an hour or more, and then mix it all up in a big pile of favorite greens. It should almost be like when you are eating a salad and get a tiny bit of grit. Over time you can gradually add more and more.
 

ZEROPILOT

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This thread has convinced me to try out Mazuri lol. I’m gonna buy some now!
5m21
Not the LS type.
Most tortoises do not like the so called "better" formula.
I don't want anyone to be swayed into trying some Mazuri and getting POed at me because they bought the LS.
The LS is the only one sold in the smaller bags. And my experience with it is not good.
I've also never used a different brand of pellet food. And can not vouch for them.
Redfoot CAN process sugars, etc.
Most other species can not.
A lot of those brightly colored pellets may contain sugars. I simply don't know.
They look a lot like breakfast cereal and I am suspicious of them.
 
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Cathie G

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Vlad crunches on it and crumbs go flying out of his beak ? he can't resist a Mazuri
I'm going to try that on Saphire. I would love to see him crunching with his beak. Maybe he just doesn't like baby food.
 

Toddrickfl1

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Vlad crunches on it and crumbs go flying out of his beak ? he can't resist a Mazuri
Everytime I've tried giving it dry to my Tortoise he just looks at me like "What am I supposed to do with this"
 

Lokkje

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That is cool. Just realize that the first few times your tortoise sees it, it probably won't like it or want to eat it. Don't give up. Start with just a tiny tiny broken piece of a pellet, soak it for an hour or more, and then mix it all up in a big pile of favorite greens. It should almost be like when you are eating a salad and get a tiny bit of grit. Over time you can gradually add more and more.
So Tom are you saying I should add more and more grit to my salad?
 

Kim&Tim

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If you want to get yourself used to eating more grit, then yes. :)
I ate our horse pellets once as a kid (yeah I was one of those kids?) I wasn't impressed, no? I also tried hay and grass, but didn't do it for me either.

@Lokkje On the seccond page at the bottom I've explaned how I do it, this really helped because the big grits were a no no. Maybe it helps!
 

Maggie3fan

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Everytime I've tried giving it dry to my Tortoise he just looks at me like "What am I supposed to do with this"
Bob was that way too...he was this big rock with a sorrowful look that said...warm water on it plzzzz.
My objection to Mazuri came when I used to head-start hatchlings for my sister. I'd get them clutch's at a time, when I lived in Calif. I'd get California desert torts and Sulcata...10 to 24 or so. Because I live in snow country now, just Sulcata, in comes Bob...Bob would mostly be stuck in his shed and couldn't graze, so the Safeway provided me with free cuttings, leafy stuff...I hunted my neighborhood for weeds...hay... and at the start of winter I'd get a 40 lb bag of Mazuri. for Bob. On this one clutch I noticed a few of the hatchling babies weren't eating as well as I thought they should...and they weren't gaining weight. So one day as I was feeding Bob a light bulb went off in my head!!! Taaa Daaa. So I took Spring mix...dandelion leaves and flowers...and warm softened Mazuri...all mixed together...and from the very beginning those hatchlings and untold numbers after them, all would eat the Mazuri and leave the greens. So while I may look dumb...I'm not. I stopped using Mazuri for anybody but Bob...kept all the heat and humidity stuff correct, and took great looking healthy yearlings to her. This repeats itself until I stopped adding Mazuri. I'm thinkin because each nugget was covered in molasses, sweet, that's why...I tried'em...sweet and yet nasty...but that was just my personal experience...
 
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LasTortugasNinja

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My Russian wouldn't touch the Mazuri. The pet store fed their stock the Zoomed grassland, so I switched it out. He didn't want it either. LOL However, if I mix it with radicchio (his 'drug' of choice) he'll eat two pellets like they're nothing. Now he gets a mix of all sorts of stuff. The zoomed, local weeds & flowers, and a few pieces of grocery greens, topped with a "treat" such as cactus, a small piece of squash, or some other "naughty" that gets him eating. Once those little jaws start chomping, they don't stop til the plate is clean.
 

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There's certain foods he just won't eat easily. If I feed only greens for two weeks he won't eat any. Or if I feed greens mixed with some fruit, he'll pick out the fruit. If I mix 4 pieces of soften Mazuri mixed with greens he will devour the whole plate within minutes. So rather than starve him weeks at a time till he gives in it's just easier with the Mazuri.
[/QUOTE Maybe it's like me putting Ketchup on everything?
 

Maggie3fan

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My Russian wouldn't touch the Mazuri. The pet store fed their stock the Zoomed grassland, so I switched it out. He didn't want it either. LOL However, if I mix it with radicchio (his 'drug' of choice) he'll eat two pellets like they're nothing. Now he gets a mix of all sorts of stuff. The zoomed, local weeds & flowers, and a few pieces of grocery greens, topped with a "treat" such as cactus, a small piece of squash, or some other "naughty" that gets him eating. Once those little jaws start chomping, they don't stop til the plate is clean.
I have an adult tortoise who drug of choice is also radicchio...I've tasted it...bitter...
 

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