Which one for me?

[Elliriyanna]

I have been doing a ton of research and I am currently looking at the russian Tortoise, hermanns, and greek ( in that order) , I would like to know the differences and which are most commonly available as I do plan to look at a rescue and potentially go on a waiting list.

I own two aquatic turtles and do know the basics for terrestrials.

I only want one male, so finding the right little one is key.

wants-

Size- 8 inch max
Personality- fun to watch, Non agressive, learns to associate its keeper with good things.
Diet- herbivore- I do not want to try balancing protein and feeding live, I know herbivores should not have pellets, this is fine.
Hibernation- I have very bad anxiety and do not feel it would be good for me to have to hibernate an animal.

If you have any questions or suggestions please let me know.

 

[Tom]

Any of those three should suit your criteria just fine. All of them will be aggressive with each other, but not usually with people.

There is nothing wrong with feeding the right kind of pellets as part of a balanced and varied diet. Many of us use Mazuri tortoise chow and ZooMed grassland pellets. I soak them and mix them with greens a couple of times a week.

None of them have to hibernate. You can keep them up with you all winter if you want to. When the time comes we can give you tips to help with this.

As far as personality goes, that is a very individual thing. Some are very outgoing and some are shy. Getting one from a rescue increases the likelihood of you getting a wild caught tortoise, which increases the likelihood of it not relating as well to you, although some are still bold and fearless. It would be best to buy a young one from a breeder and raise it yourself if personality really matters a lot to you. Generally hermanni and horsfields are more outgoing than greeks, but there are bold Greeks and shy russians too.

Your size reference sends up a red flag for me. Sometimes people want a small tortoise because they want to use a small enclosure in a small apartment. Tortoises need a lot of room to roam. I recommend at least 4x8 feet for any of the above species.

I would try to go to a reptile show and see all three first hand. One of them will "speak" to you.

 

[bouaboua]

100% agree with Tom. And see who will speak to you.

 

[Elliriyanna]

I want the small size not for a small enclosure I plan an 8x8 outdoor and a 4x4 indoor ... This is whats recommended on every caresheet I have found. I just want a small tortoise, I don't need a huge one, Its really as simple as that. Its also much easier to relocate with a little guy lol. Plus my boyfriend is not overly comfortable with large animals, A small tortoise is just all around best. We decided size based on our needs .. not with a limit to an enclosure

I am a firm believer in rescue, I do not want to buy from abreeder while tortoises are in need. Also I go through MATTS so I can be assured of personality before adopting.

I do not drive so reptile shows are a no go for me.

It says on the Russians caresheet that pellets can cause issues with too much protein. I just want the best for my animals.

Even if I DO get a tortoise while in an apartment, I still plan to use my entire balcony as an outdoor pen ( with substrate that would not hurt his shell) and a nice big pen ... Like I said 4x4 would be what we would be going for at the time of adoption.

 

[Elliriyanna]

I would really like to know general personality for a given species and which are most available, the rescue said they get about 5 russians a year. and I do know a lot varies based on the individual

 

[Tom]

Care sheets are written by people. Just regular people like all the people here. Some people are comfortable with putting animals in smaller enclosures, some are not. My russians are one year old and live outdoors in 8x24' pens and even that is not big enough to suit me. Care sheets are full of all sorts of misinformation, so just be cautious who you are taking advice from. For example most every care sheet for sulcata hatchlings still says to house them dry and on rabbit pellets. We now know this to be totally wrong and potentially deadly, but you can still find it plastered all over the web.

The protein thing is another old myth. Obviously they don't need to be fed meat, but a little bit of plant protein is good for them. It was once believed that protein caused pyramiding. We now know it doesn't. The protein thing was taken to an extreme and many tortoise are actually protein deficient because of it.

Helping a tortoise in need sounds great, but hermanni and gracea are both very valuable and are usually not given away for free. No harm in trying to find a free one though. Russians are a bit more commonly given away due to their availability and greater numbers.

 

[Elliriyanna]

I guess russian tortoise.com was not the place to go Its so hard to get good information, this is why I usually stick to the ATP care sheets.

I LOVE large enclosures. but sometimes I have to be realistic about just how large I can go.

So it sounds like due to availability a russian is the way to go for me.

Do you have any specific care sheets I should be looking at?

I know not to use rabbit litter etc , but it said 50/50 sand / eco earth ( coconut coir)

I have time to research and try to get this right

 

[leigti]

I have had a Russian tortoise for a year and a half and I really like her. She was definitely wild caught and had had a hard life before I got her but she warmed up to me quickly and definitely has personality. Some people think the Hermans and Greek Tortoise are prettier than the Russians but it doesn't matter to me. My Tortoise eats out of my hand and will eat out of other peoples hands also. She is not afraid of anything, the dog the cat etc. if you're looking for a rescue I would guess that the Russian is more available but that is just a guess. Good luck with whichever one you choose.

 

[Tom]

Sand is another old no no. Lots of people even here on this forum still use it mixed in with soil or coir. I have seen too many x-rays of tortoises impacted with sand. Its also a possible skin and eye irritant. Better to just not use it.

There is good info on some sites, along with the old outdated bad info. A lot of it is just opinion too. Like the sand thing. Its just my opinion based on what I have seen. Another thing to consider is your location. South FL has a very different climate than Phoenix AZ, so you will get some different advice based on where you are too.

It can be very hard figuring out what to listen to and why. Just keep at it and read it all. Come here and ask lots of questions. Ask for people to explain why sand is good and should be used, or why they think it is bad and shouldn't. In defending points of view, there is much to be learned by the readers and opponents with opposing view points.

Here is a care sheet that I typed up for russians and another thread that might have some points of interest for you:
http://www.tortoiseforum.org/threads/russian-tortoise-care-sheet.80698/
http://www.tortoiseforum.org/threads/beginner-mistakes.45180/

 

[Elliriyanna]

Well I have heard they can also become impacted on Eco earth ... But they like to dig so I cant just do like fleece or something which is what I would usually do to fix the issue.

I dont tell my location ... But I am more north east ... Which is why an indoor enclosure is key. He will need to come in at night once we get cool nights and be in all winter.

Once I get back from babysitting I will read the care sheet

I really want the best for my animals and am in no rush.

 

[Elliriyanna]

One second, I just realized how young the fact I babysit can make me sound. I am in fact an adult, I am just a childcare provider.

 

[Yellow Turtle01]

No, coco coir is totally digestible. Tom is completely right, the caresheet will provide you with the best of all information of russians. I have a WC russian from petco, and he is amazing. He has such an adorable and bold persoanlitly, I couldn't imagine not having him. When you get your tort, take him to a a herpetologist, because WCs often have parasites, and don't show sypmtoms for a long time.

 

[Elliriyanna]

I would be adopting from a reputable rescue ... Where he would already have seen a vet,gotten a health check and I would know his personality. I have a vet but I don't see why I would need to take him immediately if adopted from a trustworthy source.

I will pull out my notebook and take down what I need to so I have key information on hand at all times.

I would love to get a baby and raise it ... but my conscious will not allow me to pay $185 for an animal when I can get one with a less than stellar background who needs the love.

 

[Tom]

I don't think coco coir is digestible, but small amounts do pass through, like with accidental ingestion while eating. While it is physically possible, I have yet to see a tortoise need surgery to remove a coco coir blockage, or die from it. I have seen many tortoises need surgery for sand impaction, and I've seen many die from it.

 

[Elliriyanna]

Thank you. I am just overly cautious. Both of my boys have no substrate and silk plants lol.

I had also considered box turtles ... I know they are omnivores but I am wondering if they would be better for me space wise. I love tortoises , but what got me started on turtles was EBT's, Of course I can't get EBT or possess them in my state. So I was thinking 3 toed.

They seem to have wonderful personalities and their natural climate is more like mine.

I want the best animal for my location and experience. I do know abreeder who would happily ship me three toed.

maybe I should start a new thread.

 

[smarch]

For personality alone I'd say Russian!!! My guy's wild caught, but he has so much personality and isn't terrified of me (took him a little to warm up to me though).
As for space, while you don't have areas as big as some here 4x4 inside and even bigger outside is a fair amount of space. My Franklin's inside is a 20L tank but his outside is 5x5 and I take him out an hour or so every day and longer on weekends, and he's happy. I assume from what you were saying that the 4x4 would be until you had room for bigger? Because that's exactly my case with frank, he's getting a huge tortoise table when I move out.

 

[johnsonnboswell]

Go to russiantortoise.net for good information.

Boxies may not be legal or available where you are. Or they may be harder to get. I would not say that they need less space than RTs

 

[johnsonnboswell]

Sorry, you already said about EBTs.