What is the best substrate for Russian tortoises

Dan108

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Hi all just looking for some advice about substrates for Russian tortoises as it is very confusing.

all the online resources recommended different types.

Could someone please recommend the best and safest option
 

Suey

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Hi I’m in the uk, think I’ve tried every substrate there is over 6 years. I like cypress mulch which is called forest floor here. It’s clean and can be dampened down and sprayed with warm water for humidity ( which Russians don’t want as much as some other kinds of tortoise ) I also like mixing compost ( with no additives ) and the coir bricks which you wet with warm water and it swells and makes a fibrous substrate. At the moment I have both cypress mulch at one end and compost mixture at the other end.
 

Dan108

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Hi I’m in the uk, think I’ve tried every substrate there is over 6 years. I like cypress mulch which is called forest floor here. It’s clean and can be dampened down and sprayed with warm water for humidity ( which Russians don’t want as much as some other kinds of tortoise ) I also like mixing compost ( with no additives ) and the coir bricks which you wet with warm water and it swells and makes a fibrous substrate. At the moment I have both cypress mulch at one end and compost mixture at the other end.

oh ok I’ll definitely give that a go
Is the forest floor the one by zoo med
 

Suey

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Yes I think it is , think you can get off Amazon. I get it from swell reptiles but not sure where they deliver. They aim to do deliveries within 2 days .
 

traciey2kbabe

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I’m in UK too and I think other than topsoil and coco coir nothing else. The topsoil is cheap as chips from wickes anyway. Wickes do their own at something like £4 a bag for 25litres :)
 

Yossarian

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The three suitable substrates are Coco Coir (messiest), Cyprus mulch (less messy), and Orchid Bark (least messy). Personally I dont care for cyprus mulch, it doesnt retain moisture well enough and it sometimes smells bad when you wet it. I like coco, it is messy but it holds a lot of moisture and doesnt go moldy, it last a long time, and its good for digging into. More and more I am thinking of switching to mostly Orchid bark though, the fine grade stuff shares those qualities while being a lot cleaner.

We dont reccomend people use soil and garden compost mixed in because of unknown contaminants. Effectively you dont know what plants are in compost and many torts eat the substrate, If the compost is largely from a toxic plant that could be a problem, also many composts have additive fertilisers which can be harmful. Same goes for Top Soil, but soil also has other risks including sand in it, and sand is an abrasion and impaction risk. Even worse, I garden as well, and from personal experience I have found nails and screws in bags of soil and compost many times over the years, and recently the forum had a tort very ill from swallowing a screw, last I saw it wasnt looking good even after surgery. With the three options I mention you can have complete confidence of whats in the bag, and they provide everything a russian tort could need.

There is no need for us to replicate their wild habitat, that is impossible, what is needed is for us to provide a habitat in which their natural needs are met and in which they can thrive. The reality is many people use poor substrates for torts including soil and compost and their torts survive fine, ultimately its a small risk with a potentially catostrophic consequence scenario.
 

Dan108

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Yes I think it is , think you can get off Amazon. I get it from swell reptiles but not sure where they deliver. They aim to do deliveries within 2 days .

I’ll try Amazon as I live in Ireland and it’s hard getting stuff from most uk suppliers now
The three suitable substrates are Coco Coir (messiest), Cyprus mulch (less messy), and Orchid Bark (least messy). Personally I dont care for cyprus mulch, it doesnt retain moisture well enough and it sometimes smells bad when you wet it. I like coco, it is messy but it holds a lot of moisture and doesnt go moldy, it last a long time, and its good for digging into. More and more I am thinking of switching to mostly Orchid bark though, the fine grade stuff shares those qualities while being a lot cleaner.

We dont reccomend people use soil and garden compost mixed in because of unknown contaminants. Effectively you dont know what plants are in compost and many torts eat the substrate, If the compost is largely from a toxic plant that could be a problem, also many composts have additive fertilisers which can be harmful. Same goes for Top Soil, but soil also has other risks including sand in it, and sand is an abrasion and impaction risk. Even worse, I garden as well, and from personal experience I have found nails and screws in bags of soil and compost many times over the years, and recently the forum had a tort very ill from swallowing a screw, last I saw it wasnt looking good even after surgery. With the three options I mention you can have complete confidence of whats in the bag, and they provide everything a russian tort could need.

There is no need for us to replicate their wild habitat, that is impossible, what is needed is for us to provide a habitat in which their natural needs are met and in which they can thrive. The reality is many people use poor substrates for torts including soil and compost and their torts survive fine, ultimately its a small risk with a potentially catostrophic consequence scenario.

Thanks for all that information. I was definitely thinking of going with the orchard bark for that very reason that’s it’s good for humidity and easy to clean .

A lot of websites are saying that sand and soil mixes are the best option.

Would a sand and soil mix be safe if you new what it was made from and if it was made from sterile sand & eco earth blocks
 

Yossarian

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I’ll try Amazon as I live in Ireland and it’s hard getting stuff from most uk suppliers now


Thanks for all that information. I was definitely thinking of going with the orchard bark for that very reason that’s it’s good for humidity and easy to clean .

A lot of websites are saying that sand and soil mixes are the best option.

Would a sand and soil mix be safe if you new what it was made from and if it was made from sterile sand & eco earth blocks

Its not a good idea. Sand can cause digestive impaction if they eat it. When I first started out I used a sand soil mix. A couple things I experienced, it doesnt retain moisture well enough, the top layer dries out very quickly after wetting and you get a dry dusty and hard compacted medium, I literally noticed this dark dust all over the place downstairs. More seriously, my tort (as most do) had his usual path around his enclosure and on parts of that path he would rub his shell against the wall. Over time little particles of soil and sand stick to the walls and when I returned from holiday one time he had worn through his shell in one spot, that is what I mean by abrasive risk.
 

Dan108

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Its not a good idea. Sand can cause digestive impaction if they eat it. When I first started out I used a sand soil mix. A couple things I experienced, it doesnt retain moisture well enough, the top layer dries out very quickly after wetting and you get a dry dusty and hard compacted medium, I literally noticed this dark dust all over the place downstairs. More seriously, my tort (as most do) had his usual path around his enclosure and on parts of that path he would rub his shell against the wall. Over time little particles of soil and sand stick to the walls and when I returned from holiday one time he had worn through his shell in one spot, that is what I mean by abrasive risk.

Oh ok I definitely won’t use that then thanks for that information I’m definitely going to stick to orchard bark I think
 

Yossarian

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Oh ok I definitely won’t use that then thanks for that information I’m definitely going to stick to orchard bark I think


It is a good option and if you dont like it you can always switch. Check to see if you can get it from a garden store or online bulk rather than buying the "specialist" reptile orchid bark. As long as the bag says it is 100% orchid bark then its the same stuff but the reptile product will have a significant markup.
 

Tom

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There is a lot of confusing, contradictory info out there... Yossarian explained it very well.

Short answer: Coco coir works best for babies. Orchid bark works best for adults. Cypress mulch can work too. No sand, no soil, no peat, no moss, and especially no reptile substrate with the sand and limestone bits in it.

Here is the current and correct care info all in one place:
 

Dan108

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It is a good option and if you dont like it you can always switch. Check to see if you can get it from a garden store or online bulk rather than buying the "specialist" reptile orchid bark. As long as the bag says it is 100% orchid bark then its the same stuff but the reptile product will have a significant markup.

I’ll definitely try find a bulk bag online as some of the garden Centres in Ireland don’t have a great range in bark
 

Suey

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When I buy compost I always ask or read on the bag to make sure there’s no additives in. When I used to buy top soil I used to sieve it through a garden riddle especially when they were babies. Haven’t tried orchid bark as it’s not easy to get hold of here.
 

Dan108

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When I buy compost I always ask or read on the bag to make sure there’s no additives in. When I used to buy top soil I used to sieve it through a garden riddle especially when they were babies. Haven’t tried orchid bark as it’s not easy to get hold of here.

That’s interesting I’ll definitely do more research and look into that . I was going to use soil originally but it’s very hard to get sterile loam in Ireland so I might just stick with the orchard bark .
 

Dan108

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There is a lot of confusing, contradictory info out there... Yossarian explained it very well.

Short answer: Coco coir works best for babies. Orchid bark works best for adults. Cypress mulch can work too. No sand, no soil, no peat, no moss, and especially no reptile substrate with the sand and limestone bits in it.

Here is the current and correct care info all in one place:

I’m definitely going to stick with orchard bark now that you have recommended it . I wouldn’t like to risk using anything else.
Thanks for the care sheet that really simplifies things .
 

Sleppo

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I keep RT's and I recommend orchid bark or cypress mulch. I find that the orchid bark is less dusty when dry. If you spot clean daily you can keep the stuff for a long time too. Make sure you are spraying and mixing up the substrate every other day or so to keep dust down. If either do get too dry you can place in a large bucket and soak it in water to rehydrate then put back in the enclosure, hope this helps. Good luck!
 

Yossarian

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I keep RT's and I recommend orchid bark or cypress mulch. I find that the orchid bark is less dusty when dry. If you spot clean daily you can keep the stuff for a long time too. Make sure you are spraying and mixing up the substrate every other day or so to keep dust down. If either do get too dry you can place in a large bucket and soak it in water to rehydrate then put back in the enclosure, hope this helps. Good luck!

Alternatively, if your enclosure is waterproof (it should be) then you can use a watering can to add water like you would a plant. No need to remove and re-add.
 

Dan108

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I keep RT's and I recommend orchid bark or cypress mulch. I find that the orchid bark is less dusty when dry. If you spot clean daily you can keep the stuff for a long time too. Make sure you are spraying and mixing up the substrate every other day or so to keep dust down. If either do get too dry you can place in a large bucket and soak it in water to rehydrate then put back in the enclosure, hope this helps. Good luck!

Thanks I’ll definitely try that if it gets too dry
What size bars would you recommend
 

Sleppo

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Alternatively, if your enclosure is waterproof (it should be) then you can use a watering can to add water like you would a plant. No need to remove and re-add.

True and good point, my tables aren't lined.
 

Dan108

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True and good point, my tables aren't lined.

I wouldn’t like to add water with a watering can as it could make the enclosure too damp . From what I’ve read Russian tortoises are a desert species and don’t require high levels humidity .
 
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