What am I doing wrong???

[tanker]

We have had the new Red footed tort for about 3 weeks now and he was definitely healthy when we got him. He is about 9 months old. He was moving around eating drinking etc...
I have noticed a difference in him in the last 3-4 days. He isnt moving around, isn't eating, and acting a lot like our first tort who died.
I don't know what Im doing wrong, we feed him spring mix, tort pellets (soaked in water to make soft). Every time I put on the calcium powder he doesn't eat the food so I stopped giving him the calcium and Vitamins. I KNOW they need it but he wont eat it other wise.
He is now always sitting under the heat lamp with all his limbs out and his head.
I know that we have had a hard time keeping up the humidity. We switched his enclosure last night to help with this and it is now at about 60-70 humidity. The temps are always in the 80 during the day and in the 70s during the night. He has a UVB light on as well.
Can anyone suggest what I can do????? Please HELP, I dont want to hurt another little tort...

 

[HarleyK]

What kind of light are you using? As for the vitamins, I use Tetrafauna's Reptocal. Egyptian dan mentioned it in one of the posts and so I decided to try it out. My rf would probably eat that stuff alone.

 

[tanker]

Im using a 100 watt heat lamp and a UVB, What should I be using???

 

[ALDABRAMAN]

It sounds like he is trying to get warmer! Any chance of parasites or worms?

 

[Shelli]

OH NO!! I'm so upset to read this...
Do you think maybe it has picked up whatever your last tort had?
Did you disinfect everything?
When I bought my first tortoise in Canada she was incredibly expensive over $400.. We were very concerned on her getting sick.
The guy said to us that the redfoots were very hardy and it would take a lot for her/him to die or anything... he guaranteed her and said if something happened he would refund us...
I know this is no real benefit to you but I want you to know that this is really unusual because as a breed they are pretty hardy creatures...

I can't see that after all the advice you had lasttime you have done anything wrong, the only thing I can think is that it has maybe picked up what Tanker had

 

[LindaF]

I am a newbie so don't know how much help I can be. In April I got our baby and was told he was 4 mons old. So he is 10-11 mons now. I did have a struggle at first getting heat up. Initially, I was told a 100 w spot would be enough. The poor thing was too cold and spent his whole time burrowed in the substrate under the light. Since then I have added a UVB, and a ceramic heat emitter (CHE). The CHE was the best purchase so far. It has increased the heat and health. He did better when over the summer he could be outside. Now that he is back to being inside, I need the CHE to keep the heat up. Our house is on the cold side so I leave the CHE on all the time and the lights on 12 hours. When I had been turning off the CHE at night he was lethargic and took him too long in the morning to heat back up.

Good luck I hope you baby gets better. Take him to a vet before he gets worse.

 

[yagyujubei]

I would up your temps about 10 degrees day and night.

 

[kimber_lee_314]

I agree - up your temps. Mine can get up to 90-95 during the day, and as low as 70 at night. (I believe they really need that temperature change from day to night.)

 

[Madkins007]

Hi, tanker! The 100w bulb is probably just not quite enough for your setting. You may want to try something warmer, like a ceramic heat emitter, a sun or Infra Red lamp, etc. Even a cheap 'black light bulb' may offer more heat in this situation. Get the hot spot up to about 90ish.

If you post a photo of your set-up, we might be able to help with more specific ideas.

You can also try the articles in the Tortoise Library in my signature.

Good luck!

 

[HarleyK]

Im using a 100 watt heat lamp and a UVB, What should I be using???

If he is stretching out the limbs under the lamp then it means it isn't warm enough for him. It's as simple as that. Mine is usually in the high 80's (peaks in the low 90's at some point in the day) and 75 or above at night. If the temp is high 60's or low 70's..the tort will get sick in the long run.

This rf is my first tort and just remember to keep it simple!

 

[PeanutbuttER]

If he is stretching out the limbs under the lamp then it means it isn't warm enough for him. It's as simple as that.

I am not trying to be confrontational, but are you sure about that? My hot spot in my tort table has peaked at times at a little over 100 and I have still seen my RF stretched out underneath it just loving life and soaking it up. I suppose that could mean that the rest of the table is too cool, but what you've said feels more like a rule of thumb than a sure-fast sign of temps being too low.

 

[Madkins007]

A lot of torts have this sort of thing this time of year. In other species, it would be as if they are preparing for hibernation. Red-foots do not hibernate, but they do experience bad weather in many parts of their range and they sometimes aestivate through it (about 1/2 way between sleep and hibernate.)

Our best guesses for this are that they are being triggered by temps, humidity, lighting, or maybe even barometric pressure changes. The best ways to fight it seem to be making sure it is nice and warm, good humidity/wetness (but still warm), and find something he will continue to eat.

Some specific things you can try would include:
- The Spa Technique. Set it in a small tub of warm water, upper 80's or so, about as deep as 1/2 of the shell, and let it relax for a while- 5 minutes or more if it tolerates it well. It sometimes helps if the pan slants so it is shallower at the chin end. I like using a tub with kind of high sides to trap the humid vapors in it better. There is another thread about keeping soak water warm.
- Offer 'snack' foods to re-interest it in eating. Banana, strawberries, worms, etc. usually work. You can usually mix or cover them up with a bit of calcium powder and crushed human vitamin tablet for an additional boost.
---- (Note- you can combine these two ideas into what Yvonne and others call the Baby Food Soak- mix some baby food fruits, squash, carrots, etc. into warm water and add some liquid vitamins.)
- Offer some decent lighting set on a 12 hour timer, apart from the heat lamp, etc. A plain incandescent set up to shine over the entire space is helpful.

Understand that occasional periods of not eating are rather common and not harmful by themselves- this is a species that is documented as going for months at a time in the wild sleeping in hides. One report talks about a whole group of them trapped in an anteater burrow by a larger adult that did not move for over 4 weeks after enjoying a big fig orgy.

 

[Balboa]

Mark gave you some good advice there.

Is your UV light next to the basking lamp? My experience is limited, but from what I've seen a too cold tort pulls in their limbs while basking, while a sun-worshipping isn't too cold, they're looking for D3. D3 synthesis is most active while warm so a UV light really does need to be next to the basking spot.

This can lead to two scenarios, a D3 starved tort may spend alot of time basking, and if the uv lamp is not next to the heat lamp...
a too cold tort basks way too much and dehydrates.

Basking should be a normal part of the day at multiple times, but never all day.

---

Forgot to address your environment, from what I know yes those temps and humidity are too low and will lead to sickness. PLease do read and study Mark's website.

 

[tanker]

I will up the temps a little and do my best with the humidity.
1)If the humidity is in the 60-70s is this sufficient?
2)What should I feed him for protein? I have tried dried crickets but he doesnt eat them either.
3)I have tried to give him the calcium sprinkled on his food and liquid Vitamins, when I do this he does not eat it. How can I get him to eat his Vit and calcium?
4)I also noticed that there are little bugs in his enclosure... They kind of jump and are brown gray colored. How did they get in there and how can I get rid of them? Do I need to be concerned with them.
I used shredded coconut husk and peat moss for a substrate.
I have the UVB and the heat lamp right next to each other but he is always under the hottest spot from the heat lamp sometimes limbs in and sometimes not.
Thanks for the help!

 

[Balboa]

The little bugs are probably spring tails, they're harmless and eat mold, so really they're good to have, but most folks freak out about them.

60-70 Humidity IMHO is too low. 80+

A little play sand mixed in with the peet and coir may be a good idea for better traction.

I can't stress it enough, read everything on this web site
http://sites.google.com/site/tortoiselibrary/

There's diet information, ideas on raising humidity, tons and tons of good stuff.

I'm using a crock-pot right now to raise humidity in one enclosure. I simply duct the steam generated by the crockpot into the enclosure, keeps both heat AND humidity over 80, all the time.

I'm planning on replacing the crockpot with a fishtank soon, same kind of idea.

 

[Madkins007]

I will up the temps a little and do my best with the humidity.
1)If the humidity is in the 60-70s is this sufficient?
2)What should I feed him for protein? I have tried dried crickets but he doesnt eat them either.
3)I have tried to give him the calcium sprinkled on his food and liquid Vitamins, when I do this he does not eat it. How can I get him to eat his Vit and calcium?
4)I also noticed that there are little bugs in his enclosure... They kind of jump and are brown gray colored. How did they get in there and how can I get rid of them? Do I need to be concerned with them.
I used shredded coconut husk and peat moss for a substrate.
I have the UVB and the heat lamp right next to each other but he is always under the hottest spot from the heat lamp sometimes limbs in and sometimes not.
Thanks for the help!

1. More would be better. Can you partially cover the habitat to trap more humidity in?

2. Don't worry about it much. You can try worms, hard-boiled egg, bits of chicken, etc. They don't need a lot of protein.

3. A lot of this makes the food bitter or look funny. Try mashing it up in something sweet, like a banana.

4. Springtails, probably. No problem.

Take things slowly and thoughtfully. Try to work on one thing at a time and evaluate how it affects the rest. For example, boosting temps usually dries things out. I really would just start off with some warm soaks to see if it changes anything.

 

[SILVERSTAR]

i change my substrate once a week for my hatchling is i didnt do that id have those bugs too,bcuz i get them in my toads tank,also i use paper towel for my tortoises substrate and dried alfalfa and various grasses for the inside of his humid box.

 

[tanker]

Here is his enclosure. Its bigger than the one the last tort was in. It is about 2.5 x 2.5 feet and 1 foot deep. Using 100 watt heat light and UVB right beside each other.

Here is his neck. I am concerned about the dry whitish skin which he has had since we got him. If anything it has got a little better.

Here is his eye.

 

[Madkins007]

Sorry- the photos did not come through.

 

[Crohnsaholic]

Photos didn't come through very well. Maybe he needs some more heat at night, You may want to look at ceramic heat emitters. Raise the humidity to 80 and above (you can do this buy misting his cage frequently or adding a bowl of water he can easily climb in and out of). Try giving him luke warm baths as well, this will help him to warm up, it's relaxing to them (as long as it's not too hot or cold), and it will help to hydrate his/her body if it is dehydrated. Hope I helped!