Viv or table

Cheryl1503

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Hi guys
Need a bit of advice, I am on another forum on Facebook and am getting slated for having my tort in a vivarium and being told to move him to a table. Mostly because vivs are bad due the glass stressing them out and too much humidity. I have a vet appointment for him as I think he has a runny nose so now I’m think they are right!
inly thing is, I have two dogs so I don’t feel it would be safe to have him in a table! Thoughts please x
 

Yossarian

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What tortoise do you have and how old is it? How big is the Viv. What do you mean when you say it has a runny nose?

Honestly, dont listen to anthing on facebook, the groups there are so bad its not even worth considering.

Here is another discussion about FB right now

 

Yossarian

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At 4 months it should definitely be in an enclosed chamber (vivs qualify). They have higher humidity needs as young torts while their shells are growing rapidly, glass can be an issue with some torts just trying to go through it constantly, Im not aware of torts suffering ill health due to "glass stress" though, some of the keepers here have raised hundreds, maybe more torts with glass front enclosures. Its far more important to provide a large enough footprint and for an adult hermans that is minimum of 4ft x 8ft. Even youngsters need to be able to have a good roam about.

Do tell us more about the runny nose, a vet may be pre-emptory and pointless.
 

Cheryl1503

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He has been sleepy off and on over the past 4-5 days but eating fine and when he’s active, he’s active! Then while soaking yesterday I heard him squeaking so was keeping an eye on him , last night I noticed he had some nasal discharge (clear). I’m cleaning it away but there’s more and he’s blew a couple of bubbles ( try to clear it I assume)
 

traciey2kbabe

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Hi, I’m UK based and in a lot of fb groups. Unfortunately I have to agree vivs for torts are a no go and you’ll be hit with a stick on any UK forums! But to be fair it’s easy and straight forward to convert to a table, also you can add mesh over the top like chicken coop mesh to stop the dogs getting to it :)
 

Cheryl1503

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Ps do get him checked out by a vet though could be respiratory problem xx
He has an appointment tomorrow night! I have two staffies and the only space I have is next to a sofa, so my younger one would be on top of it with out a question! And she’s bug dog! The vet has recommended a large viv - that’s what he keeps his in and he specialises in reptiles/torts ?‍♀️
 

Tom

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Hi, I’m UK based and in a lot of fb groups. Unfortunately I have to agree vivs for torts are a no go and you’ll be hit with a stick on any UK forums! But to be fair it’s easy and straight forward to convert to a table, also you can add mesh over the top like chicken coop mesh to stop the dogs getting to it :)
This is old incorrect info. We have been fighting for more than a decade to stop the spread of this wrong info. Please don't parrot it here. There are literally thousands of examples of why this is wrong right here on these pages. I have personally started 1000's of hatchling tortoises in closed chambers (vivs) and raised 100s of them all the way to adulthood and reproduction.

I've also done many side-by-side comparisons of every variation you can think of between closed chambers and open tables. Open tables are the "no-go". Closed chambers promote smooth healthy growth, help tortoises thrive, make temperature and humidity maintenance much easier for new keepers and old experienced ones alike, and they are also much more energy efficient as a bonus.

Here is the current and correct care info. Your tortoises will benefit from this info as well:
 

Tom

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Hi guys
Need a bit of advice, I am on another forum on Facebook and am getting slated for having my tort in a vivarium and being told to move him to a table. Mostly because vivs are bad due the glass stressing them out and too much humidity. I have a vet appointment for him as I think he has a runny nose so now I’m think they are right!
inly thing is, I have two dogs so I don’t feel it would be safe to have him in a table! Thoughts please x
Vivs are a MUCH better ay to go for any tortoise of any age. Adult hermanni can survive just fine in an open table, but a viv is still better for them too. Babies universally do better in a closed chamber. I've been experimenting with this for decades.

Here is the current and correct care info: https://tortoiseforum.org/threads/the-best-way-to-raise-any-temperate-species-of-tortoise.183131/

What is the overnight low temp in your viv?
 

Cheryl1503

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Hi Tom! Thank so much! I have a 3.5x 2 ft viv at the moment and for safety would prefer to keep him in one! But can’t find any bigger than 4x3, but I don’t think that’s big enough? Looks like I might need to get one custom made!
 

Cheryl1503

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Yossarian

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Hi Tom! Thank so much! I have a 3.5x 2 ft viv at the moment and for safety would prefer to keep him in one! But can’t find any bigger than 4x3, but I don’t think that’s big enough? Looks like I might need to get one custom made!

There is a company here in the UK making big vivs, I’ll post you a link in a bit, on my phone.
 
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traciey2kbabe

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How yo
This is old incorrect info. We have been fighting for more than a decade to stop the spread of this wrong info. Please don't parrot it here. There are literally thousands of examples of why this is wrong right here on these pages. I have personally started 1000's of hatchling tortoises in closed chambers (vivs) and raised 100s of them all the way to adulthood and reproduction.

I've also done many side-by-side comparisons of every variation you can think of between closed chambers and open tables. Open tables are the "no-go". Closed chambers promote smooth healthy growth, help tortoises thrive, make temperature and humidity maintenance much easier for new keepers and old experienced ones alike, and they are also much more energy efficient as a bonus.

Here is the current and correct care info. Your tortoises will benefit from this info as well:

How cheeky are you! How can you say or ask me “not to parrot it here” when your “care sheet” says table or viv? Lol. That’s a little bit rude!! Please don’t disrespect me like that.

Anyway here in the UK we have plenty of tortoise protection organisations that are truly against vivs and all for tables. I have to agree with them.

What happened to freedom of speech! What happened to replicating where they are from?

Do torts live in an enclosed space out in the desert? No they don’t. Trying to replicate in a table or outdoor is ideal.

anyway down to the owner if you ask me but each to their own. I have my view in the UK where the poster is from and you have yours in US. But please next time don’t be so god damn rude!
 

Yossarian

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BIG VIVARIUMS Archives - Southdown Aquatics

This is the companies website. The reality is that a small viv is not suitable as a tort home for lots of reasons including space and lack of functional temperature gradient etc. . . In a correct size space this isnt an issue, you can set it up to run as a controlled climate and there will be plenty of space for the tort to regulate its own temperature. The idea that torts need dry conditions is flawed, while many of them live in dry parts of the world, they in fact spend the majority of their lives in relatively humid microclimates like burrows, and amongst thick low laying vegetation and leaf litter.

As for the RI, if you must take it to a vet, make sure its someone that has experience with torts. Tortoises get a lot of unneccesary vitamin injections because vets dont seem to know what to do with them. Its a tough call.
 

Cheryl1503

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My vet has a special interest in reptiles and keeps torts himself! Time will tell , I’ll take him anyway and see what he says! Thanks for the tag !
 

Yossarian

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My vet has a special interest in reptiles and keeps torts himself! Time will tell , I’ll take him anyway and see what he says! Thanks for the tag !

A tort owner as a vet would be ideal.
 

Yossarian

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How yo


How cheeky are you! How can you say or ask me “not to parrot it here” when your “care sheet” says table or viv? Lol. That’s a little bit rude!! Please don’t disrespect me like that.

Anyway here in the UK we have plenty of tortoise protection organisations that are truly against vivs and all for tables. I have to agree with them.

What happened to freedom of speech! What happened to replicating where they are from?

Do torts live in an enclosed space out in the desert? No they don’t. Trying to replicate in a table or outdoor is ideal.

anyway down to the owner if you ask me but each to their own. I have my view in the UK where the poster is from and you have yours in US. But please next time don’t be so god damn rude!

Not sure why it would matter where your from, the old school wrongthink is prevalent on both sides of the atlantic.
 

Yvonne G

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How yo


How cheeky are you! How can you say or ask me “not to parrot it here” when your “care sheet” says table or viv? Lol. That’s a little bit rude!! Please don’t disrespect me like that.

Anyway here in the UK we have plenty of tortoise protection organisations that are truly against vivs and all for tables. I have to agree with them.

What happened to freedom of speech! What happened to replicating where they are from?

Do torts live in an enclosed space out in the desert? No they don’t. Trying to replicate in a table or outdoor is ideal.

anyway down to the owner if you ask me but each to their own. I have my view in the UK where the poster is from and you have yours in US. But please next time don’t be so god damn rude!
Keeping baby tortoises in a closed/covered enclosure DOES mimic how babies live in the wild. A baby tortoise very seldom comes out in the open. H spends the majority of time hunkered down underground or under dense scrub where it's more humid and warm.

On another note there may be some terminology confusion. I always thought the UK used 'viv' to describe an aquarium. And so saying don't keep your tortoise in an aquarium (which would be open on top). Tom above is obviously using 'viv' to describe a totally closed enclosure, which could be made out of any material not just glass.
 

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