Vitamin soaks/baby food soaks for ailing tortoises

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Nofx

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Ok, i have not read the whole topic, but i got the point of it.
So what i am asking is, is it possible for me to cure my tort's runny nose ( YES, it came back! ) with soaking him in baby food vitamins?
Of course not only with this ( heat, hydration.. ), this would be the boost that would be needed to kill all the bad guys in his system..i hope.

Funny, the RN came back right after 2 days that I stop giving him the concentrated vita/prote drip's in his mouth.
 

Annieski

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Mark, you hit the nail on the head--but here's the thing---If that guy was indeed having a heart attach[ where damage is being done to the heart muscle, itself] the first attack might be written off as heartburn---but the next "attach" in all likelyhood will be a bit more severe and so on. And the frequency may increase. At a point---the antacids are not going to do the trick. And as it increases---so will the intensity. If the antacids worked--in all liklyhood---it was heartburn. I think with torts---if we do the "hospital treatment" at the first sign of symptoms[even though the condition could have been present for a lot longer] it's the added TLC that aids the tortoises own immune-defense. And thank God we know that after all the TLC---if he's not improving---it's time to see a Vet[or ask on the forum].
 

Yvonne G

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Nofx said:
Ok, i have not read the whole topic, but i got the point of it.
So what i am asking is, is it possible for me to cure my tort's runny nose ( YES, it came back! ) with soaking him in baby food vitamins?
Of course not only with this ( heat, hydration.. ), this would be the boost that would be needed to kill all the bad guys in his system..i hope.

Funny, the RN came back right after 2 days that I stop giving him the concentrated vita/prote drip's in his mouth.

Baby food/vitamin soaks have nothing to do with respiratory infection. If a runny nose clears up after the above-mentioned soak, then it wasn't an infection. It was probably too dry, too wet, allergic reaction, pick one.

This is not the correct place for your question, as this is a debatable thread started by Kristina. If you will post your concern in a new topic, under the heading that describes your type of tortoise, we'll be happy to try to help you.
 

Madkins007

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Annieski said:
Mark, you hit the nail on the head--but here's the thing---If that guy was indeed having a heart attach[ where damage is being done to the heart muscle, itself] the first attack might be written off as heartburn---but the next "attach" in all likelyhood will be a bit more severe and so on. And the frequency may increase. At a point---the antacids are not going to do the trick. And as it increases---so will the intensity. If the antacids worked--in all liklyhood---it was heartburn. I think with torts---if we do the "hospital treatment" at the first sign of symptoms[even though the condition could have been present for a lot longer] it's the added TLC that aids the tortoises own immune-defense. And thank God we know that after all the TLC---if he's not improving---it's time to see a Vet[or ask on the forum].

I think most of us are on the same basic page- looking for a cost-effective way to deal with vague symptoms early on and either nip them in the bud or boost the immune system to fight them.

We may differ on the effectiveness of a soak to deliver nutrients and such through the skin or cloaca (it doesn't work...at least according to science), but I am perfectly willing to accept that a tortoise soaking in stuff can take in helpful stuff through the mouth as it benefits from the warmth and vapors of the water. In my own mind I am calling it a 'spa treatment' more than a soak since to me that has a different connotation.

My own purpose or goal in this thread is to see if we can develop a more reasoned approach, like maybe the one I listed a couple pages back, or to tune 'The Vitamin Soak' so each element in it has a purpose that can be defended more clinically. (By that, I would offer the example of vitamin A dosages. Dr. Mader would seem to suggest it is not a key element- is there something else we could that may be better or is the stuff with the Vit. A doing enough good for other reasons to leave it?)
 

jensgotfaith

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'Spa treatment' or not, even though it strays from what science has 'proven' I have seen with my own eyes that the 'spa treatment' of the carrot baby food and vitamins soak brought about a drastic improvement in my Russian. I have never claimed it to be the 'cure-all' answer, but in my tort's circumstance it worked. Had she shown any other symptoms or had she not improved, yes I would have taken her to a vet. I have spent many hours on this website reading post upon post upon post. I consider myself to be a responsible tort mom.
 

Livingstone

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I think soaking is a great preventative practice, but I dont think it is a cure all. There is a point at which a professional must step in and perform blood work to accurately diagnose and treat a sick animal, the problem is there is a massive shortage of vets who actually know whats wrong with a tortoise. A different topic all together. As long as the process works you should use it, there's no reason to question a successful practice save being able to refine and perfect it. We are all after the same result.
 

Madkins007

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Livingstone said:
I think soaking is a great preventative practice, but I dont think it is a cure all. There is a point at which a professional must step in and perform blood work to accurately diagnose and treat a sick animal, the problem is there is a massive shortage of vets who actually know whats wrong with a tortoise. A different topic all together. As long as the process works you should use it, there's no reason to question a successful practice save being able to refine and perfect it. We are all after the same result.

just out of curiosity, what do you think a soak prevents? What is it you think it does for the tortoise?

As for 'as long as it works'- bloodletting works quite nicely, but we no longer do it. As I've said- my goal in this thread is to try to see if there may be a way to shift this from effectively a folk treatment to something with a more clinical rationale.
 

Annieski

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I'm not sure if the connection will be apparent--but here goes---When my son was about 20 months old[daughter was a 1 mos NB]---we had a virus that really took hold in our house. Oh! the poopin' that went on--+on---+on. I was in almost constant contact with the DR. and was told to KEEP him HYDRATED and warm. About the 8th day, he was so exhausted from the trips to the toilet AND diaper changes---after cleaning him up, I put him on the sofa in the FR[with TV on] and after just a few minutes---he almost seemed like he was in a coma. I knew he was still breathing--but he wouldn't talk and had this stare[remember this like yesterday]. Got my neighbor to watch the baby--put on some clothes and put took my son to ER. It's a 4 minute ride. In those 4 min.s he was transformed into my NORMAL, beautiful Boy. ER people thought I was a "wacky Mom" and said to go home and relax. When I phoned the Ped's.Dr.--she said that the transformation came because of "the change in enviornment"["sick house"--to outside "air"]. We hadn't been outside in 12 days.
Maybe if there is no PROVEN reason why a "spa soak" works---it's as simple as the change of enviornment[with the added tlc of vitamin/aroma therapy]. And sometimes it is a simple as "it is what it is" and there is no explaination. JMO
 

Madkins007

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Annieski- Interesting story! I would throw out something for your consideration, however...

7-14 days is about how long most 'bugs' last. It takes time for your body to learn how to fight them, and then for the anti-bodies to spread. Then there is some recuperation time, often in the form of an exhausted sleep. I would suggest that the actual disease process was pretty much done, and the change in air, posture, scenery, and activity mostly just woke him up. You don't kill viruses or bacteria with clean air- although you certainly do boost spirits with it.
 

chairman

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Unless I misunderstood something from another thread, or someone misunderstood me, in the recent "keeping water warm for soaks" thread I learned that tortoises continue to absorb nutrients from their feces up until the point that the fecal matter leaves the tortoise's body. If this is the case, isn't it possible that the mechanism by which vitamin soaks work is that tortoises relax their cloacas during a warm soak which allows either a)vitamins to directly enter digestive tract the wrong way or b)fecal matter absorbs vitamin-soaked water when cloaca relaxes. Either process could result in the absoption of nutrients, and b) could definitely be a delayed enough response for typical blood serum tests to not accurately measure how many nutrients are absorbed during a soak.

To put it a different way, the tortoise isn't absorbing nutrients through the skin or cloaca, but are actually allowing nutrients to enter their... um... exit. Hmm... now my theory is starting to remind me of a south park episode from years ago. But I suppose that the better comparison would be to a suppository. Unless, of course, a bit of miscommunication occurred in the other thread, and tortoises don't continue to absorb nutrients from their poo once is reaches the very end of the digestive tract.
 

Annieski

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Madkins007 said:
Annieski- Interesting story! I would throw out something for your consideration, however...

7-14 days is about how long most 'bugs' last. It takes time for your body to learn how to fight them, and then for the anti-bodies to spread. Then there is some recuperation time, often in the form of an exhausted sleep. I would suggest that the actual disease process was pretty much done, and the change in air, posture, scenery, and activity mostly just woke him up. You don't kill viruses or bacteria with clean air- although you certainly do boost spirits with it.

Mark--I guess I should have explained better[for the comparison]. I believe what happened is what you said---my thinking is that- in the same case of a tortoise[with a "flu-bug",if you will] adding "vitamins/baby food" into a soak--may just be enough of a "change"[from plain water] to give a boost to the immune system of the tort. I would think their immune systems have to work ,somewhat, in the same manner as ours---and the "nutrient-soak"gets them over the hump. My dog eats dandelion leaves when she has an upset stomach. The leaves make her throw-up. If she feels relief---she comes in the house. If she doesn't--she eats more leaves and throws-up some more. I think the leaves make her gag--so she can empty her stomach. I think instinctually,this is her "hospital treatment". Maybe tortoises would do something similar, but as captives, they can only be "treated" by us. JMO
 
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